TV Box Sets Getting SLighted (1 Viewer)

[Dave Scarpa]

DVDFile has reported that despite being shown on CBS for 1080i Paramount is releasing the hugely popular CSI in 4:3 Format. This is the second box set (THe Shield was the first) that was shot for Hi Def and released in 4:3.

I can only see releasing CSI in Full Screen to be a bow to the masses. Also Paramount still continues to set no MSRP on these sets leading to retailer "Interpreting" their prices. We saw this on TNG and DS9 and it seems to be Paramounts M.O. now.

I would not be picking up CSI but still thinks it should be released OAR. TV Product should not be exempted. I Bought the Shield despite my dissapointment, but probably will bot again on Season 2 if it's not OAR.

Maybe Dave Lambert can get the message to Gord Lacey and we can at least let Paramount and Fox know our displeasure, even thou I'm sure it'll fall on Deaf ears.

 

[David Lambert]

Gord is definately aware of the OAR issue concerning this title. And others!
He definately still visits HTF as often as possible, and so I'll let him speak for himself.
Since the C.S.I. 4x3 masters are apparently coming directly from the producers, who are claiming that no 16x9 versions are available, I don't think we are going to have any choices other than to either buy this version or not own C.S.I. Season 1 on DVD. Season 2 is reputed to be planned for Widescreen, though.

 

[Mark_Wilson]

Since the C.S.I. 4x3 masters are apparently coming directly from the producers, who are claiming that no 16x9 versions are available

I could loan them my HD Widescreen recordings.
But seriously, maybe it'll be open matte. Has anyone compared the R2/4 set to the widescreen broadcasts? I could probably post some screen caps of a WS episode.

 

[David Lambert]

Please DO post the screen caps of a Season 1 ep, regardless of whether or not there is something to compare them to!
Actually, the best thing would be to take a digital pic of the TV screen where these are displayed on a 4x3 TV complete with "black bars" on top and bottom. That way noone can be accused of altering the pics!

 

[Jason Seaver]

I would not be picking up CSI but still thinks it should be released OAR.

What is CSI's OAR, though - is there any official word on which ratio the directors and DPs are composing for? We know Babylon 5 was composed for 16:9 and Robbery Homicide Division was composed for 4:3, but unless a show is broadcast letterboxed, it's tough to know exactly what the intent is.

 

[David Brent]

I wonder if CSI's DVD release may have something to do with the way the show was screened in the UK?

When Channel 5 broadcast season one it used grainy 4x3 transfers, but for season two the picture was gloriously glossy 16x9 anamorphic.

CSI first appeared on DVD in the UK. The same content prepared by Momentum later appeared in Australia and Canada. Although the US release contains the whole first season Momentum reports it uses their masters (though presumably with the correct opening theme.)

UK viewers who watched the show on C5 would expect that at least S2 would be in widescreen. Momentum reports that S2, due February, WILL be in widescreen, and that once again the US will likely share the same masters.

CSI is filmed for High Definition TV, and would benefit from a release on an HD format like Blu Ray, but I honestly can't see that medium ever really gaining enough mainstream appeal to support TV material.

David

 

[Mark_Wilson]

Doh! Forgot I sent my D-VHS deck off to get repaired yesterday. I'll do the screencaps when I get it back, hopefully it won't take too long.

I can try and get caps as 4x3 letterbox but it may be tough since its 16x9 native.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

unless a show is broadcast letterboxed, it's tough to know exactly what the intent is.

Indeed. Just because a show was filmed on a 16x9 canvas doesn't mean the OAR is 16x9.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

My guess is that like Malcom in the Middle, they took an FHD (Fudge Hi-Def) policy on season 1. Once they got in the rhythm of what they were doing they concentrated more on the wide ratio.

 

[.Michael.J.N.]

We also have reports that the forthcoming Dawson's Creek DVD set will be released 4x3 when it was filmed in WS, and has had "best of" releases in WS already...

I'll be really disappointed overall if we start getting Television box sets on a regular basis in 4x3 when the WS masters exist and have been used. Its another issue if it was shot in WS, but never aired or released in WS, then 4x3 is fine.
But I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling going forward...
-Michael

 

[David Lambert]

Okay, Gord has published a news item over at TVShowsOnDVD that is an opinion piece about the CSI situation. I must say I agree entirely with what is written there this morning. Check it out, and we can discuss it here I expect. Gord knows about this thread, so I think its reasonable to expect him to keep an eye on it.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

I Read Gord's Take and can understand his position. But I still feel that if they are going about filming in WS, and protecting for 16:9 then this is the ratio I want to see. I say this partially as a Widescreen TV Owner and partially because these set are not cheap. The studios are putting premium Prices on these sets, as such in the case of Paramount. With the fact that most of these shows (Like CSI) are being stipped in Daily Syndication, they must give me an incentive to own these sets. 16x9 framing is an incentive. As are commentaries, featurettes etc.

I don't anymore want to buy a 16x9 set of a TV series 5 Years from now as I want to buy a Non-anamorphic movie right now. I'd like at least some future proofing (As much as there can be with HD on the horizon)

Believe me when I say this is a public issue. They want to give the public Full Frame Now and sell them wide screen later, they do not want to hear the mass cries of Letterboxing for a TV Show, they are trying to appease who carries a ton of these Sets, WALMART.

I Bought the Shield partially like Gord's Review because FX shows it Full Frame. And Mostly because the extras (Commentaries on every episode, Listening Paramount?) were too good to pass up, and because it's a great show.

But I won't Keep on buying knowing these shows are filmed Widescreen and would look infinately better on my Widescreen set anamorphically enhanced.

I will buy OAR and it makes no difference too me TV or Film.

 

[Joseph S]

I'm upset that Paramount would do this especially when the sow was presented on CBS in OAR HDTV. As such I will not purchase CSI as I did not purchase The Shield last week.
In addition, I will not be purchasing any of the following season sets regardless of aspect ratio because of the state of this DVD release. If at some time they chose to correct this problem and rerelease it in OAR, I will purchase that and all remaining sets provided they are in OAR as well.
There are far too many DVDs to watch so I'm not going to put up with this one bit. I haven't and will not buy any of the Karate Kid titles from Columbia either for the same reason.

 

[Jason Seaver]

If at some time they chose to correct this problem and rerelease it in OAR, I will purchase that and all remaining sets provided they are in OAR as well.

Who's to say what the OAR is for some of these shows, CSI included? I mean, sure, I'd like it in 16x9 because that's the shape of my TV, but if the show is being broadcast simultaneously at 4x3 and 16x9, which most accurately represents the creators' intents? Both are arguably the "original" aspect ratio.

Films, you know - what was shown in the theater is (presumably) correct. But unless it's one of the few TV shows shown in the same AR on both NTSC and DTV (Boomtown, The West Wing) or a producer has made a statement (Firefly, Robbery Homicide Division), who are we to say what the "correct" AR is? For all we know, the production company composed CSI with 4:3 in mind during the first season, making the set's specs proper.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Who's to say what the OAR is for some of these shows, CSI included? I mean, sure, I'd like it in 16x9 because that's the shape of my TV, but if the show is being broadcast simultaneously at 4x3 and 16x9, which most accurately represents the creators' intents? Both are arguably the "original" aspect ratio.

DING, DING, DING! That's why I can't wait until HDTV is the standard, so we can be confident in a ratio.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

Doesn't it cost more to film in widescreen? It makes me wonder why these people even bother if they're not going to use the whole frame.

And don't say it's to protect for the future, because there's just so many mistakes between the versions, I don't get it.

It's like ANGEL, filmed in widescreen from season 1, but no masters were created. When it enters syndication (let's say it's now 2009) are FOX planning to create new masters for HDTV? doubt it. So why bother filming widescreen in the first place?

 

[Rob T]

I've watched CSI in 4x3 since the first episode so whether it's in 4x3 or 16x9, it doesn't really matter to me. I'll be getting the US sets for sure.

 

[Gord Lacey]

Joseph S said:

I'm upset that Paramount would do this especially when the sow was presented on CBS in OAR HDTV. As such I will not purchase CSI as I did not purchase The Shield last week.

Joseph, you shouldn't be mad at Paramount since they didn't decide to release the show in 4:3, they simply release what CBS gives them since they are just the distributor. Paramount distributes MTV and CBS releases yet has nothing to do with the production of the sets. There's a new saying: "Don't shoot the distributor". The same is true with Warner Bros and the BBC, PBS and HBO releases.

Not purchasing "The Shield" is a bummer since it's a very awesome set. I don't understand how you can believe the OAR of the show is 16:9 since it didn't air that way anywhere. Would we consider a movie 2.35:1 even though every theater showed it in 1.85:1?

Right now I think there are two acceptable aspect ratios for many shows: 4:3 and 16:9. Obviously there would be a huge problem if a show like Boomtown, or Enterprise was released in 4:3 since the aspect ratio of both HD and traditional broadcasts are in widescreen.

Gord

 

[gregstaten]

Doesn't it cost more to film in widescreen? It makes me wonder why these people even bother if they're not going to use the whole frame.

Actually, it may not more to shoot a TV show in widescreen. Many film-based shows are now shot on 35mm using a 3-perf pulldown versus the 4-perf pulldown used for the standard "1.33" 35mm aperture. Using only three perfs per frame results in less film stock used per minute which results in a definite cost savings.

Of course, film stock is only a part of the total expense, but using 3-perf pulls saves money.

-greg

 

[Joseph S]

Would we consider a movie 2.35:1 even though every theater showed it in 1.85:1?

If that is the intended AR yes, I would, even if every theater in the world turned into HBOHD.