Tumult Plans

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by KurtJ, Nov 18, 2002.

  1. KurtJ

    KurtJ Stunt Coordinator

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    Anyone know when the Adire website will have enclosure plans available for the Tumult? What about the Maelstrom? I was considering the AA PR alignment for the tempest, but those other two look Awesome. Thanks[​IMG]
    Also, I want to build a complete set of speakers for my HT. I have small Polk satellites that cross over at about 130 Hz. Looking for similar type kit with XO at 80 Hz.
     
  2. KurtJ

    KurtJ Stunt Coordinator

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    What about the dickason's or the kit 281?
    anyone have any feedback or ideas?
     
  3. George W

    George W Stunt Coordinator

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    Kurt,
    I second the kit281's. I just finished a set of 2 ported 281's and 2 kit81's for the rear. I finished my center cabinet but parts are currently over budget [​IMG] I'm combining these with a shiva based sub and I think they sound terrific with home theater. If you go this route you should not be dissapointed. I'll try to get some pics up soon.
     
  4. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    I have been searching for plans for the Tumult as well. Is there something out there I could go check out? Or what changes would have to be made to the Tempest plans to accomodate the Tumult?
     
  5. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Mark,

    What type of enclosure are you looking for; sealed, ported, PR? We can help you come up with a design if you let us know what your design goals and size restrictions are.

    Also, I'm almost finished with my Tumult enclosure and hope to have the driver in within a few weeks if you want to take a trip out to Rutledge to hear it.
     
  6. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Adire has not published any papers regarding enclosure designs for the Tumult yet. As Brian says, let us know what you are after and we can all help out.
     
  7. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Kyle,
    I have seen some gorgeous subs that folks have posted. Since the projector hush box project I have been working on is just about finished, I am looking towards another project. Something about idle hands…
    I have an SVS 20-39PCi that I am not dissatisfied with. But after seeing all of the projects that others have done, I got interested in giving a subwoofer a shot.
    I’ve got a 20x23x8 room. I use a CRT projector and have a set of Divas, which were very popular last year over on the AVS forum last year. My very first DIY speaker project was a pair of Leach speakers, (Take note Patrick Sun) which I have for my rear surrounds. These are circa 1980 and have lived a rough life but still work well. I use the room about 50-50 for movies and music. Of course, the wife and kids use it for movies only, so that would skew the usage somewhat.
    What I think I want in a sub is a down firing box type, which I will finish in natural oak.
    Since you offered, I would like a sub to go down to 18-20Hz, and give a nice tight sound. Would like to keep the cost under $1,000, but could go higher. Size is not a real issue, but do not want a huge enclosure. Yes I am going for appearance as well.
    The Tumult looks like a fine piece of hardware and seems like a good choice. I have checked out the Adire site, downloaded their design program and their designs for the Tempest. The boxes they have drafted look straight forward enough to build. Guess I was looking for something that already had plans and I could go from there. Thought perhaps the Tumult would work in one of these designs with minimal modifications.
    I have the preconceived notion that a sealed sub is best for the “tight” or more musical sound. There was a sealed Velo servo sub I heard I really liked, but it was over $2,000. Although, as I get more educated, it seems like the room has a great deal to do with the final result. I have really had to lower the output of the SVS when I calibrate. So the room volume may not be that of an issue.
    So, I look forward to any recommendations because I am not confident I could design an enclosure, even with all the excellent software available. I really do not want to be someone to pester the experts, so I will take any advice.
    Brian,
    Loganvillle, where’s Loganville? LOL. I would like to take you up on your offer. I’m in Alpharetta, so I would have to schedule for the drive over.
    Thanks[​IMG]
     
  8. Dan Pawlowski

    Dan Pawlowski Stunt Coordinator

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    Mark
     
  9. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Dan...

    I had already downloaded the info from the Adire site. I must admit that providing detailed plans is a very wise business move on their part. Makes people like me want to order from them.

    I am assuming that to keep the Q equal to .500, I would need to increase the volume of the enclosure slightly to accept the larger volume displacement of the Tumult over the Tempest. And certainly modify the cut outs in the cross members to allow clearance for the larger driver. Any guess on the delta in square inches between the volume of the drivers? Or just increase the height by .xx inch to compensate?

    Did you mount the amp to the outside and wire to the driver? Any other circuitry involved?

    So, how would you characterize the improvement in performance of the Tumult over the Tempest? Increased SPL? Tighter? Goes lower? I guess what I am asking, is it worth the extra bucks?

    Another unrelated question. How many manhours should I plan for building a sub? This silly hush box has taken forever. 60+ manhours so far and I have a couple coats of Deft and installation to go. Maybe it is because I designed it on the fly and had a couple of redos.

    I’d better stop, I’m asking way too many questions.
     
  10. Dan Pawlowski

    Dan Pawlowski Stunt Coordinator

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    Mark

    You are correct about the volume of box in relation to Q. Stuffing is a factor also.

    I mounted my amp on the enclosure but i dont like this method. I use the active xovers within the AVA250 of which I altered to Fc=80Hz and Q=0.5 (otherwise referred to as a Linkwitz Riley Xover). I like to keep my low level interconnects as short as possible so i will mount my AVA250 near my main amp and run one Hi level twisted pair to my sub enclosure (Tumult VCs are connected in series).

    The Tumult driver is by far the Best Sub driver i have ever heard. It blows away my Tempest (literally). In that my cost for the driver was ideal (free), I think that the extra $$ is worth it.


    gotta go

    later
    Dan
     
  11. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Mark,

    I know that Dan Wiggins has personally recommended a sealed enclosure with a Qtc=.577 for someone wanting a very accurate sub if you also want to use them in a nice music setup. While you haven't stated it specifically, I assume that's what you are looking for since you mentioned wanting "tight" sound and also liking the Velodyne subs.

    For something like this you're looking at a 113L enclosure (4ft^3) without any stuffing, or around 80L (approx. 3ft^3) with around 3 lbs. of polyfill. You'll want a decent amount of power as well. The Hypex HS500 that Adire sells is supposed to be an excellent amp and will provide enough power to get the Tumult moving.
     
  12. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Dan and Brian,

    Keep me straight. A sealed sub = tight bass. Ported sub = more SPL. What about a passive radiator?

    I know the subwoofer in my Audi = boomy bass.
    The bass from the main speakers = tight bass.
    The bass form the Leach DIY speakers does not go very low.
    The bass from the SVS is very loud and is great for movies.
    The Velodyne I heard was in a high end home theater and may have swayed me. My brother-in-law has a huge room with a single Sunfire Signature sub. Something like 80x30 with a vaulted ceiling. No kidding. Seemed like the sub was lost, but otherwise sounded good. That is about it for my experience with subs. Well maybe a few of the chest pounding subs in some not so classy bars I have been in. So I guess I am looking for quality over loud.

    It just seems to me that the bass from the SVS is not as “tight” as main speakers. Therefore, my desire for a “tighter” sub that goes low.

    So in keeping me straight…

    A good combination is a Tumult in a sealed box with a high output amp. (Tumult =$500, HS500 = $550) That’s over $1,000 already. Ouch!

    Next, the Adire white paper shows a low Q Bessel alignment design (Q=.577) to net a 230L cabinet with 64 oz of polyfil. You are recommending “a 113L enclosure (4ft^3) without any stuffing, or around 80L (approx. 3ft^3) with around 3 lbs. of polyfill”. I am not sure I am making the connection. Would you not want the enclosure free of polyfil if possible?

    Much thanks,
     
  13. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Mark,
    The Tempest requires a larger enclosure than the Tumult to obtain the same "Q" so that is why you will see larger enclosures for it. Using polyfill is perfectly fine and I even suggest to at least line the internal walls of the subwoofer enclosure.
    Brian suggested using the HS500 because it is an excellent amplifier with a lot of features such as the parametric EQ, but you dont have to use it. There are many pro amps that will provide plenty of power that sell new for less that the HS500 and you can always look at used amps too.
     
  14. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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  15. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    SO… the Tumult is designed for a smaller enclosure. Sort of backasswards to me. You might suspect a larger driver would move more air and need more volume behind it.

    Thanks for putting me back on the straight and narrow.

    The 4 cubic ft box is no problem as far as size goes. Actually it seems kinda small. Does it matter what the length x width x height dimensions are? Got suggestions for the dimensions?

    Yes, it is more money than I thought, but ya got to pay to play, right. The HS500 sounds like the way to go. It has all of the subwoofer features that you need and I will have to figure out. If you hooked up something like a QSC amp, what other hardware is required? Would you need some sort of crossover?
     
  16. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Yes, the Tumult is designed to go in a smaller enclosure than the Tumult. Because of that, it doesnt have as high of sensitivity as the Tempest and needs more power to get it going...consider it a trade off if you will.

    The actual shape of the enclosure doesnt matter so if you want to go with 4 cu ft then just design it the shape you want then make the calculations that provide you with 4 cu ft internal volume. You may want to make it slightly larger than 4 cu ft to account for the space taken by bracing and the Tumult itself.

    You should be fine if you hook it up to an external amplifier that does not have an onboard crossover as long as your preamp or receiver has built in bass management (which I'm sure it does). All you will need are a set of binding posts or an input cup to connect the amp to the sub enclosure.
     
  17. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

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    I just finished my Tumult based sub and I would say it compares to around 3 tempests.. the nice thing with the tumult is it likes small enclosures.. i put mine in a 24" cube which isn't small by any stretch..

    Craig
     
  18. Mark_J_H_Jr

    Mark_J_H_Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Went to Home Depot today. I bought some 3/4 in MDF and had it ripped at 24 inches. The guy that cut the 4 x 8 sheet offered me another 4 x 8 sheet for 31 cents. Best deal I have ever had at HD.

    I have a minor set back with the hush box installation so I will not be making any chips for a sub for another three weekends. Work and skiing are taking priority.

    Since I now have way too much MDF, does it make any sense to double it up and have 1 1/2 in. walls for the enclosure? Anyone done this before?
     
  19. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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