trying to figure out the 24/96 thing

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Brad Russell, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Brad Russell

    Brad Russell Stunt Coordinator

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    I just bought a Toshiba SD-4900 thinking that it at least gets me into DVD-A and will eventaully go upstairs when replaced by a better piece. But I'm confused about the whole 24/96 thing. I have it currently connected to a Yamaha A-1 buy a digital coax connection. The A-1 can only handle 48k. Would I be better off to hook up the analog outputs of the Toshiba and set it to 96? And can regular old CDs take advantage of the higher resolution or do you need special CDs? I guess I'm suspicous that an $80 DVD player has better DACs than the A-1.

    Thanks!

    Brad
     
  2. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    To listen to the hi-rez DVD-A tracks, you MUST connect to the receiver via the 6 Channel analog outs.

    Take a look at this FAQ:

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...22#post1800722

    It addresses a lot of common questions for new users of hi-rez players. BTW, I took a quick look at One Call for the specs of you player.

    Multi-channel DVD-A for $90? Man, thats sweet! I thought surely is mistaken that a player that cheap can do MC DVD-A. But yup, it sure can.

    BGL
     
  3. Brad Russell

    Brad Russell Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks! I knew there had to someting on it bu my previous searches didn't shed much light. One question of clarification: I knew that DVD-A had to go through the analog outputs, but are the high res audio (CD not DVD-A)that could go through the digital out? Or is it only available on DVD-A?

    Thanks!

    Brad
     
  4. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    I'm sure this is in Brian's FAQ somewhere so just to reinforce it:

    If that A-1 can only handle 48kHz sampling rates, make sure when you play dvd-audios, choose (if the Yamaha has this option) the 100% analog signal path, possibly labeled as "direct" or "pure direct" or something similar. Othwerwise, all those extra samples that dvd-audio can provide and more importantly, the better filters that high sampling rates use, will be wasted.

    It turns out that good filters for the lower sampling rates are quite tricky to design; while filters for higher rates are relatively easy--and in turn, cheaper--to design and manufacture. So the DACs in your Toshiba, when converting higher rates like 96kHz and 192kHz, could very well sound better than the 48kHz DACs in your Yamaha.

    LJ
     
  5. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    By definition, CD is not hi-rez, so I guess the answer is no, but there is one other possibility that comes to mind.

    There are some DVD-V discs (on the Chesky label, IIRC) that have a 24/96 PCM stereo track. These were commonly called DAD's (not sure what that meant. Digital Audio Disc, I guess).

    These are playable only on a DVD-V player (but will play on your DVD-A/DVD-V machine). Now, if you have a receiver that can handle 24/96, then it is possible that these discs will work with the coax or optical digital output.

    There are also DTS 24/96 discs (Queens ANATO has a 24/96 DTS track) but these are NOT hi-rez. They are still compressed.

    Hopefully your receiver does have a 6 CH analog input. Multichannel DVD-A can sound fabulous.

    BGL
     
  6. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    I am not sure I am following LanceJ's comment. I may just be misunderstanding the suggestion.

    I reccomend using the 6 CH out/ins for ALL DVD-A listenning, stereo or multichannel. While you can possibly send the 2 CH stuff over the digital link down-rez'd to 48K, I don't see the advantage there.

    And the 6CH in on the Yammy would most likely be staight analog pass through, so the signals would in theory be unmolested.

    Or, I could just be missing the boat completely[​IMG]

    BGL
     
  7. Brad Russell

    Brad Russell Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks all!

    Brian: your comment about cd not being hi-rez is what I was after. I'm soryy I wasn't clear enough. I was wondering if newer "regular" CDs were being recorded at a higher resolution these days.

    Sounds like the set-up should be:
    Analog inputs for DVD-A
    Digital input for DVD-V

    All have to play around with the settings to see if every time I switch back and forth I'll have to go into the setup of the Toshiba and switch the outputs or if I can just switch from DVD to Aux. on the Yamaha.

    Thanks again!

    Brad
     
  8. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    No problem. And yes, you have it right in terms of your hook up.

    Most receivers with a 6 CH in will have a means to engage it directly. My older Marantz had a button on the remote called 6 CH. The new NAD has one called 5.1/7.1 EXT.

    BGL
     
  9. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    O.K. this time without all that extra filter stuff. [​IMG]

    Many (most?) receivers & processors digitize all incoming analog signals because it is easier to manipulate and move them around that way. But most receivers don't digitize them at the new high resolution rates that dvd-audio uses. So, such signals from dvd-audio players get "dumbed down" and those finely detailed 96kHz/192kHz-derived signals lose their advantages, the same advantages you paid all that extra money for. This is particularly true for fans of stereo music.

    One--almost--100% sure sign that a receiver doesn't dumb-down analog signals: if you activate the six channel, multichannel or direct input, and bass/treble controls(electronic, not mechanical knob-based) and DSP functions are DISabled, then that means an analog path has been created for the signal.

    But a lot more receivers are starting to use 96kHz DACs now, (even some Pioneers at the $200 price point) so this is becoming less of a problem. I have not personally seen a processor use 192kHz DACs--that entails some major DSP and tone control horsepower, which translates to big bucks.

    LJ
     
  10. CalvinCarr

    CalvinCarr Supporting Actor

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    O.k. so to add to my confusion...Should I hook my DVD player up to the 5.1 analog and the optical digital so when I play regular C.D.'s I use the digital and play all my DVD's through the 5.1?
     
  11. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Unless your player has time alignment (distance) settings, I would use your receiver to decode Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 signals. Unless you sit equidistant from all your speakers, having no time alignment can subtly distort the sonic imaging of your movies (& music).

    CD? Just use whatever sounds better.

    LJ
     
  12. CalvinCarr

    CalvinCarr Supporting Actor

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    So do I use the 5.1 analog inputs on the reciever or do I just use the optical input? Do they both do the same thing?
     
  13. CalvinCarr

    CalvinCarr Supporting Actor

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    Also I do have distance settings.
     
  14. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    Calvin,

    Please read the FAQ linked from post #2. To answer your question, you most likely will want to connect both. The reasons are explained in the FAQ.

    If the FAQ leaves any question unanswered, please chime back in. I am not trying to be a PITA, but a lot of members worked hard to try to answer most set-up questions relating to hi-rez players that a new user is likely to have. If we missed anything, we will amend it.

    And LanceJ, one point I want to make is that very,very few receivers or pre/pros digitize the 6 CH analog in. That are almost always straight analog pass through. In the vast majority of the cases, that WILL be the best possible way to listen to hi-rez MC audio.

    I do agree that many receivers will digitize 2 CH analog inputs, but even then, some have a 2 CH direct mode, which again allows the user to bypass any DSP or un-needed digitization.

    BGL
     

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