True or False: Sony SCD-C222ES is the same as the SCD-CE775 SACD player?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Matthew Anker, May 10, 2002.

  1. Matthew Anker

    Matthew Anker Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just received a service manual for the 222ES SACD changer, which is going to be one of the next players I offer modifications for. After glancing at the manual, I realize that the audio board looks strangely familiar. What I found, after carefully studying the 222ES's schematics and comparing them to the CE775's, was that other than the outputs and control board that the players are the same. The main difference is that the 222ES has a coaxial digital output and gold-plated RCAs while the CE775 does not.
    When I say that those are the only differences, I mean it. The power, main, and RF boards and the transports are interchangeable.
    Wait, there's one more difference!
    SCD-CE775 $199
    (search on Circuit City's website)
    SCD-C222ES $499
    SCD-C222ES (Crutchfield)
    -Matthew Anker
    www.SACDmods.com
     
  2. Patrick R. Sklenar

    Patrick R. Sklenar Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2000
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew,
    Actually, the '775 was $189 this evening at a Circuit City in Manchester CT.
    So, as someone who's just bought his first SACD player, do you mind if I ask just what it is that these mods of yours do? [​IMG]
     
  3. Matthew Anker

    Matthew Anker Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    The mods clean up your sound. If you visit my website you can get more information on the mods. Essentially, I clean up the clock signal, install better capacitors so you hear your music untainted, and install better diodes to clean up the power and drop the noise floor. It takes your CE775 to a whole new level. Your sound will be smoother, have a greater dynamic range, and have a lower noise floor. It also tightens the bass up. If you've heard of the term "digital harshness," then this is what my mods remove.
    www.SACDmods.com
    -M.A.
     
  4. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's not all it removes. It also removes your warranty. This may not be a big issue with the CE775, but it might be if you bought the 222ES seeing as you get a 5 year warranty with the ES line.
     
  5. Patrick R. Sklenar

    Patrick R. Sklenar Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2000
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew,
    Ah, okay. Thanks, I'll check out your web site. Not sure I want to modify the hardware quite yet, but who knows, after I've listened to it a bit ... {shrug}
    Evan,
    The '775 only has a one year warrenty. I guess, if I find the sound bothersome, I could always deal with it until then and then have the player modded? Or maybe I'll win the CT Lotto and it won't matter? [​IMG]
    G'night,
     
  6. Matthew Anker

    Matthew Anker Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally,

    "After Sept. 11th, I've decided to get the [sound] I want...NOW...No more wasting time! Damn the [warranty]."

    If I bought a 222ES and spent $499, it would really piss me off to read this. However, I didn't and that allows me to push for better sound. Losing the warranty is a risk that a person has to take to get the best sound. People have been doing it for years. I really wonder what is the failure rate on a 222ES player, it's probably pretty low. I wouldn't want to pay $300 for an extended warranty.
     
  7. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 1999
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    0
    The 222ES has two transformers(R-core & El-core), the 775 has a single El-core.

    I've popped the hoods on both players and the 555 ES. The transports are not the same. The 222 is much more similiar to the 555(without the flip down door)although it is not isolated as well. It looked to me that the 775 was flimsier.

    Matthew, I notice you don't list the 555ES on your site. Can you mod that one as well? I would be interested if you can.

    DJ
     
  8. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew, I didn't mean to take offense..I'm sorry if I came off as such.

    If what you are saying is true, that the 222 is totally the equal to the 775 except for two small differences, then surely I would get the 775 and not worry about the extended warranty. Also, for the price of the 775, I wouldn't worry about getting it modded either to gain added performance.

    I was more talking in the lines of those who would choose to go for the 555 or XA777 or even the SCD-1. At the prices those fetch, I'm not sure taking the risk to mod the player may be worth the loss of the extra years of warranty.

    That is all.
     
  9. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew, assuming the info you have on the 222ES is correct and the 222ES is almost identical to the CE775, then I would think you wouldn't have a significant market wrt modding a 222ES. Maybe for some who already own it, the mod may make sense, but for someone deciding between the two that is considering a mod, the CE775 + mod makes so much more sense. OTOH, there's apparently not much more for you to know to support such a mod, so it may be quite easy to offer it anyway.

    Doug
     
  10. Jeff D

    Jeff D Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 1999
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew, any chance you could publish/sell a parts list and replacement guide? I might like to do the mods myself, but I'm just at the early stage of mods. I can make boards from schematics and such, but as far as knowing what to replace with what.... that's a different story.

    Sounds like an interesting project!
     
  11. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2000
    Messages:
    9,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have compared the 'CE775 and 'C222ES and found the 'C222ES to be the better player with both CDs and SACDs. The difference was more marked with CDs. It could be that the differences in power supplies and transport quality are responsible for the differences in sonics I observed. Overall, I would go with the 'C222ES for $380 from J&R over the 'CE775 since the former sounds better, is built better, and has the five-year ES warranty. I actually bought a 'CE775 for my second system for $200 in March, but exchanged it for the 'C222ES when the price dropped. I was very happy with the 'C222ES, and in my second system, it was definitely better than the 'CE775. Unfortunately, the carousel drawer on the 'C222ES started to act up after about a week, so I decided to cut my losses and get a 'C555ES. The 'C555ES is the bomb. [​IMG]
    Ric Schultz of www.tweakaudio.com posted differences and similarities between the 'CE775 and 'C222ES some months ago over on Audio Asylum (Hi-Rez Highway board). A search should yield those posts. Like Matthew, Ric found many similarities between the 'CE775 and 'C222ES, but there are differences as well.
    For the record, don't come away from this thread thinking that the 'C222ES is merely a dressed up and more expensive version of the 'CE775. The 'C222ES is the better player.
     
  12. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is the C555ES player pound for pound the best SACD player available price meets performance wise?

    I see Ebay has them for around $500.

    Even if I picked up a 775 for $180 and then had it tweaked for $300, I would be in the 555ES range at that point.

    I'll be attending the Stereo Show in NYC next month and will get to talk to Sony but does anyone know if Sony has some new players that pass the 555ES at its price/performance point?

    My biggest problem with Sacd is trying to intregrate it into my DVDA system, since I have a RP91 and a Denon 3300, I only have 1 5.1 input plus I use a ICBM.

    I can't just switch cables all the time since the HT is in a Entertainment System.

    JohnG
     
  13. Matthew Anker

    Matthew Anker Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    On closer examination, I can find one difference. The 222ES has one transformer separate from the main one (which is the only one that the CE775 has). This extra transformer supplys the audio section, effectivly making two separate power supplies (even though they are on the same board). Other than that, they're the same. The CE775 and 222ES use the same transport, too.

    This is all according to the Sony service manual.

    One other thing, Crutchfield marked the CE775 as discontinued. I emailed them and this was the unfortunate reply:

     
  14. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2000
    Messages:
    9,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    John, the 'C555ES is an excellent value at $500-600. I would not expect a few mods. to the 'CE775 to beat the 'C555ES, but I could be wrong. In stock form, the 'C555ES is superior to the 'CE775 in all areas, including the DACs used. As for a replacement for the 'C555ES, I have heard nothing at this point.
     
  15. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Keith!

    JohnG
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2000
    Messages:
    9,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    No problem, John.
     
  17. Eujin

    Eujin Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2001
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew,

    If you offer 555ES mods at some point in the future, I'd be most interested, as I'll be getting one of these soon (thanks to KeithH).
     
  18. Eujin

    Eujin Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2001
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew,

    If you offer 555ES mods at some point in the future, I'd be most interested, as I'll be getting one of these soon (thanks to KeithH).
     
  19. Oliver

    Oliver Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can go blindly for a L-Clock X02. I have one in my Rotel RDD 980 disk drive. Actually this little ultra precise clock made the difference between listening to music and living the music you are listening to.

    But: This Clock is expensive. I do not want to offend anyone, but please consider buying an already good player and then start to improve it. It makes no sense to put this clock in a 179,-$ player. It will make it better sure, but at which expense?
     
  20. Matthew Anker

    Matthew Anker Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're kidding, the CE775 is no cheaply built player! The amount of technology involved to build this SACD player makes your Rotel look like something from the stone age. The CE775 originaly sold for $350, and is the predecessor to the 222ES. The DSD1702 DSD/PCM DAC is perhaps one of the most advanced available. It has 8X oversampling, is capable of 24/192 PCM, and decodes DSD. The only flaw in the CE775 is the clock and quality of the coupling capacitors. Once the LClock is installed, that DAC is capable of reaching its full potential. I think the only player that will better it would be a SCD-1.
    Eujin,
    I'm not really planning to offer 555ES modifications at this time because I prefer to buy a player for myself and experiment for a few months. Right now, cost prohibits me from purchasing the 555ES. The transition to the 222ES was simple because it was built upon CE775 technology (the power supply boards are exactly the same!). I believe that the lower priced players need the most help, and that it makes more sense to modify them.
    -Matthew Anker
    www.SACDmods.com
     

Share This Page