Trouble playing Capitol/EMI DVD-Audio hi rez stereo tracks on DVD-V player

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Paul.S, Aug 12, 2002.

  1. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Hollywood, California
    Real Name:
    Paul
    Guys:
    Is anyone else having difficulty getting their DVD-Video player to play back the "Advanced Resolution Stereo" track on the newly-released Capitol/EMI DVD-Audio titles Crowded House and/or Empire? On Capitol/EMI and newer Warner titles such as Little Criminals, the 24/96 stereo track plays on DVD-V players. It worked for a few days on mine, but now has stopped on both of the Cap/EMI titles I mentioned.
    I've powered down, waited a while and then turned the unit back on. No dice. I navigate back to the "Tracklist" menu after selecting "Advanced Resolution Stereo" from the "Setup" menu and pressing either "Play" or "Enter" just generates the 'Verboten!' red circle with a slash through it at the top right-hand corner of my TV. At that point, I can't even get the Dolby Digital track to play by going back to the "Setup" menu and selecting it. I have to open the disc drawer, close it and let the player start the default DD playback on its own.
    I purchased an inexpensive combination VCR/DVD-V player ([​IMG] yes I know)--the Go Video DVR4200--to solve the problem created by the death of my Tosh SD-2108 (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=44033) until a combination DVD-V & -A/SACD player that is to my liking comes to market (I groused about that here: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...418#post715418). The plan is to move the Go Vid to the bedroom after I get the combination DVD/SACD player.
    Anyone else experiencing this problem? Can anyone chime in with accounts of glitch-free playback of the hi rez stereo tracks on these discs on other inexpensive DVD-V players?
    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  2. Scott_Alan

    Scott_Alan Auditioning

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Paul,

    The high rez tracks need a DVD-A player. Try the DTS or DD tracks.

    Edit - I didn't read your post very carefully and now see that you did eventually choose DD.

    Scott
     
  3. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't have the Crowded House disc. Is it by chance a "flipper", with content on both sides of the disc?

    If so, what are the odds you're inserting the disc with the incorrect side up?

    Just curious.

    Regards,
     
  4. Scott_Alan

    Scott_Alan Auditioning

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I decided to give this a try on my DVD-V player (Toshiba 2109). On the menu, I don't get the Hi Rez surround option (like I get on my Denon 1600) any more, but I can still choose Hi Rez stereo. After choosing that, I was surprised to get audio, but my guess is the player does some sort of down mix??

    My guess is you want to play around with the audio output options on the DVD-V player, but even if you get "Hi rez stereo" to play, it is really just the DD output.

    Scott
     
  5. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Hollywood, California
    Real Name:
    Paul
    John:
    No. I can tell the difference between a DD down mix to two channels and a native hi rez stereo track. Per my original post, I got these tracks to play for the first couple of days of disc ownership and know that what I was hearing then is remarkably better than the DD down mix I am (sometimes) hearing now.
    Again, is anyone else experiencing this glitch attempting to play these (Cap/EMI) DVD-A discs' hi rez stereo tracks on a DVD-V player? Gotta figure this sh*t out before Pet Sounds (whenever that hopefully gets released this fall).
    Paul
     
  6. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Hollywood, California
    Real Name:
    Paul
    {Deleted duplicate post.}
     
  7. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Hollywood, California
    Real Name:
    Paul
    Well, after over 85 peeks on this and the twin thread I posted in the Audio/Video Sources area due to lack of response here, no one (else) has chimed in with any input. Either no one cares or no one has any insight. [​IMG]
    So, I suppose it will be of little consequence/interest that I've discovered a 'work-around' of sorts to my problem. I mention it here in case anyone else has a Go Video DVD4200:
    Not unlike newer Warner Home Vid DVDs which are authored to play the main menu music/video loop only twice and then start the film (instead of staying on the main menu screen indefinitely), if I leave the main Empire or Crowded House DVD-Audio menu screen onscreen for two minutes, the disc automatically starts playback. It plays whatever track I last selected in the "Setup" menu.
    In other words, if I select "Advanced Resolution Stereo" from the "Setup" menu, although the player still will not begin playing when I hit "Enter" or "Play" once I am at the "Tracklist" menu, it will automatically do so after two minutes if I do nothing! Go figure. I think this is just early format software/hardware interoperability bugginess. There were similar issues with some DVD-V players glitching on early "hybrid" (DVD-V and DVD-ROM content) DVDs such Alien.
    And yes, I'm sure I'm listening to the hi rez stereo track when I do this because not only do my ears tell me so, but the "Audio" display generated by my player says "PCM 2 Ch" when I press that button on the remote. Additionally, if I go back to "Setup" and select DD . . . and then wait two minutes . . . DD (mixdown) playback begins--it sounds crappy--and the "Audio" reading changes to "[Dolby Digital logo] 6 Ch."
    Trippy. Bring on Pet Sounds, Cap/EMI!
    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  8. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2001
    Messages:
    6,190
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Livonia, MI USA
    Real Name:
    Kenneth McAlinden
    The Crowded House disc plays as intended on my DVD-Video Player.

    One factor that could be contributing to problems is that the advanced resolution stereo track (which is non-MLP 24 bit 96kHz and available on the DVD-Video layer) has digital copy protecton applied to it. This means that most players trying to play it through their digital outs will get a 16 bit 48kHz down conversion of the 24/96 2-channel track. To hear the actual 24/96 track at full resolution, you have to use the DACs on your player and the analog outputs. I would not be surprised if all of the DVD-Video compatible 24/96 stereo tracks from EMI & Warner/Rhino titles have this.

    It is conceivable that this digital copy protection could create problems for some players. Most players have a user selectable setting that will automatically downconvert high resolution stereo signals to 48KHz for digital output. I believe the copy protected discs override your player settings and force the downconversion no matter what. If this is what is causing your player to choke, you may want to experiment with turning this feature on and off in your player menus. If it allows the disc to play through, you will still get the high resolution stereo through your analog outputs since the downconversion is only applied to the digital output.

    Regards,
     
  9. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Hollywood, California
    Real Name:
    Paul
    Ken_McAlinden:
    Thanks much for your reply.
    My reading on DVD-A is hardly comprehensive, but this is the first I'm hearing that the hi rez stereo track in the DVD-V section of newer DVD-As is not MLP. Is this documented somewhere that you might be able to link me to?
    Also, please note that all of the (attempted) playback I refer to above has been via the DVD4200's analog outputs.
    Finally, wouldn't the "user selectable setting that will automatically downconvert high resolution stereo signals to 48KHz for digital output" that you refer to in your second paragraph above be something that's found only on DVD-Audio players? I'll bang around some more in my DVR4200's menus, but I don't think I've seen that kind of setting in there. (But of course, that does not mean that it might not be found in other DVD-V players.)
    Paul
     
  10. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Paul,

    24/96K PCM in VIDEO_TS cannot be MLP encoded, as MLP is part of the DVD-Audio spec, not the DVD-Video spec.

    So inclusion in VIDEO_TS means no compression via MLP.

    Regards,
     
  11. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Hollywood, California
    Real Name:
    Paul
    John:

    Thanks very much! This helps me further understand a few things. (When I first read your post, I was thinking, "Well, what about DTS CDs and DVDs? DTS didn't even exist at the time of the introduction of the CD." But then I remembered that the DTS bitstream on CDs is PCM-encoded. And DTS is specified as an optional codec in the DVD spec.)

    Now this leads me to the slightly off-topic question: is there any material difference (such as in sound quality) between MLP-encoded and non-MLP-encoded 24/96? Or is the difference essentially one of how much [more?] space the data consumes on a disc if not MLP-encoded?)

    Paul
     

Share This Page