"Trekkies" as sexual deviants?

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Linda Thompson, Aug 19, 2005.

  1. Linda Thompson

    Linda Thompson Supporting Actor

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  2. Rob Gardiner

    Rob Gardiner Cinematographer

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    Correction: you found it in the opinion section of the online news this morning.

    Here is a link to a differing opinion:

    LA Times Claim About Pedophiles Wrong


    They not only got the source wrong (the story was written for the LA Times, not the Chicago Sun-Times) but they also refer to non-existent "records".
     
  3. Rob Gardiner

    Rob Gardiner Cinematographer

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    If anyone is interested, I did a bit of research on this "Ellen Ladowsky", the hack who wrote the article linked to in the first post of this thread. It turns out she isn't a journalist. She isn't even a blogger (this was her first post on the Huffington blog).

    She is the co-author of How To Dump a Guy: A Coward's Manual.

    She was co-host of a late nite, date-from-hell reality TV show called "Rendez-view", where guests are videotaped on dates so they can be ridiculed on the show.

    In my opinion, neither "credential" makes her qualified to offer her opinion on pedophilia, Star Trek, or the "link" between the two.
     
  4. Linda Thompson

    Linda Thompson Supporting Actor

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    Another excerpt from the link you provided, Ernest Miller (4-28-05):



    And, finally, Ernest Miller, 5-30-05:

    http://www.corante.com/importance/ar...connection.php

    I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but it is a reiteration that all parties involved stand by everything EXCEPT the "all but one" statistic, which Lamond openly refuted (as you quoted in your first post), admitting that it was nothing more than hyperbole. With that one exception, they stand by the rest of their statements concerning an apparent connection.

    And, here's a direct link to the Macleans article which Miller references in the item linked above (5-26-05):

    http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/ju..._106573_106573


    So, yes, I found the piece in the op-ed section of the online news, and I simply found it interesting. I did not intend to start a debate over the issue. The op-ed writer's credentials may indeed be quite questionable, but, as the other published items show, the facts remain that there is indeed a perceived link between pedophiles and Star Trek fandom (sci-fi in general, but Star Trek in particular, as is stressed several times in the items linked above).

    The only point being refuted by any of the involved parties appears to be the "all but one" statistic, which has already been admitted as hyperbole.

    I'm not arguing that the claims are (or are not) true. I'm simply pointing out published articles which make (and stand by) the claim that such a connection exists.
     
  5. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    Well I have it on very good authority that every single sex offender in Texas last year are heavy drinkers of water. Most of them drink the stuff every day, often multiple times per day!

    The point being, that even if the ridiculous idea that all sex deviants were Star Trek fans were true, it is a logical fallacy to conclude from that, that any given percentage of Star Trek fans are sex deviants. Any group, such as sex deviants will have lots and lots of characteristics in common, but that implies nothing about the group of people having those characteristics.

    Hell, I'll bet a lot more of the sexual deviants in Toronto are Canadian than are Star Trek fans. What does that tell you?
     
  6. Chris Lockwood

    Chris Lockwood Producer

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    I'll bet a lot of those deviants have consumed Pepsi products.
     
  7. Kevin M

    Kevin M Producer

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    100% of pedophiles arrested in the entire world since recorded time were oxygen/nitrogen breathers.....filthy air breathing SLIME! Arrest Em ALL!
     
  8. andrew markworthy

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    Beyond the hype there is a serious point here. Science fiction and fantasy tend to be enjoyed more by introverts than extraverts. Pedophiles are more likely to be withdrawn in adult company, so it would not be surprising to find that pedophiles' non-sexual interests would veer towards traditional introverted interests such as sci-fi.

    Pushing it beyond a simple correlation, pedophiles may be more interested in sci fi than many others because it represents worlds where different belief systems are the norm. It may thus reinforce the belief that a sexual taste considered aberrant by current society may in the wider scale of things be acceptable [this logic is utterly bogus, of course, before anyone flames me].

    However, to argue that Star Trek will make you a pedophile or that it contains pedophilic creeds is pushing things just a little far IMHO.
     
  9. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I wonder if Michael Jackson also watches Star Trek? I think the pedophiles also had mothers and regularly ate once a day, none of which indicates a causal relationship.
     
  10. ChristopherDAC

    ChristopherDAC Producer

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    A little poking around turns up plenty of reason to believe that the credibility of the "Sex Crimes Unit" is, like that of other similar units in other places, highly suspect. [See "Injustice Busters", a Canadian site focussing on police misconduct in the Great White North -- its founders were motivated by one of the 1990s cases in which children were coerced by police and psychologists into making absurd claims of abuse against innocent people.]
    Frankly, drug crime and sex crime investigations seem to have very little to do, most of the time, with actual crime, and more with a personal or political agenda. In parallel -- and I don't want to make this into a political thing, so this is all I'm going to say on the subject -- most of the people prosecuted under "anti-terror" laws have no connexion to local or international militant groups.
    Until a few years ago, my mother owned a nearly complete set of Star Trek novels, and I don't think anyone would accuse her of being some kind of deviant!
     
  11. Sam Davatchi

    Sam Davatchi Producer

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    I always knew there was something wrong with Star Trek! [​IMG]
     
  12. Nigel McN

    Nigel McN Supporting Actor

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    The thought that came to my mind (besides Bollocks) was what Sci-Fi would these people recognise?

    If you had a reasonable collection of Sci-Fi, that included some Trek, and someone came along with a limited knowledge of Sci-Fi, how are they going to know you have this collection of SF? By seeing the Star Trek you have.
     
  13. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    Everyone is missing the point that pedophiles who target pre-teen and early teen boys are likely to have Star Trek and similar merchandise around as bait, not because they themselves have an interest in Trek qua Trek. Similarly those who target younger children have stuffed animals and Sponge Bob videos around their houses. (I remember an Law & Order: Special Victims Unit epsiode where a search of a perps apartment turns up lots of Disney, Pixar and Dreamworks animated DVDs. One of the detectives says, "How many single men in their forties have a copy of The Lion King in their DVD player?" Hmm... not a good question to ask around here, I suspect. [​IMG])

    So I wouldn't be surprised if a high percentage of pedophiles arrested in Toronto did have lots of Trek stuff lying around - and I also wouldn't be surprised if some of them "cruised" Trek, comic book and SF conventions looking for prey. But that doesn't mean there is a connection between liking Trek and pedophilia - as the cops quoted in the articles I've read were actually quick to point out.

    Regards,

    Joe
     
  14. Paul McElligott

    Paul McElligott Cinematographer

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    Good point, Joe. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
     
  15. Rob Gardiner

    Rob Gardiner Cinematographer

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    Linda,

    Yes, I focused my criticism on the "all but one" statistic, for a variety of reasons: (1) It is untrue, (2) it is the basis of the article, (3) it is the most inflammatory part of the article, and therefore the most likely to get repeated, and (4) Ladowsky must have known it was false, but she posted it to the blog anyway.

    (A) It is untrue: In reality, "a majority" of the pedophiles they caught "had at least a passing interest in Star Trek". This is a far cry from "all but one" of the 100+ caught in the last 4 years being "a hardcore Trekkie", as stated in the blog entry. What is the meaning of this statistic? I never studied statistics in school, but my understanding is that 100 pedophiles, all located in one city, is not a statistically valid sample. Consider the detectives were finding these guys on the Internet. What percentage of Internet users have a passing interest in Star Trek? They were only able to examine the homes of pedophiles who were actually caught. Maybe there is a correlation between interest in Star Trek and people who are unable to avoid detection?

    On one of the Star Trek Anniversary specials a few years ago, Leonard Nimoy produced a statistic: according to an national survey, 53% of Americans consider themselves to be Star Trek fans. If this is true, then that means a pedophile is no more likely to be a Star Trek fan than a member of the general population.

    (B) It is the basis of the article: Re-read the article and replace the "all but one" are "hardcore Trekkies" portion with "a majority" have "a passing interest". The entire article falls apart. If there is not a strong correlation between pedophilia and being a fan of Star Trek, then attempting to explain the link between the two is a meaningless exercise: she is trying to explain a phenomenon which does not exist.

    (C) It is the most inflammatory portion of the article and therefore the part most likely to be repeated: Take a look at the link to the Ohio paper I quoted above. My quote was not an excerpt from the article, but the entire item. The lone (false) statistic was repeated, without supporting data of any kind, but with another (also false) embellishment, that the statistic was derived from "records" and not an off-hand comment by an officer. It's like a children's game of "telephone". The further a story gets from its original source, the shorter and less accurate it gets.

    Look at the chain of events here:

    (1) Detectives in Toronto put up a Star Trek poster in their office, with their faces superimposed over the faces of the crew. Obviously, this is meant as a joke.

    (2) A journalist from the LA Times, while doing a story on the sex crime unit, sees the poster and asks about it.

    (3) An officer, in jest, gives the exaggerated figure that "all but one" of the pedophiles they've caught in the last 4 years was "a hardcore Trekkie".

    (4) The journalist does not think this statement is extraordinary in any way, takes it at face value, and fails to ask a follow-up question. (such as "Really?")

    (5) However, the journalist DOES think the statement is extraordinary enough to emphasize in the LA Times story.

    (6) The LA Times editor apparently sees no need to question, or fact-check this particular statement and it sees print. (For a regular citizen such as you or me to read what we believe, without question, is bad enough. But for the editor of a major newspaper to do so is inexcusable.)

    (7) A lawyer who happens to write his own blog does think the statement is worthy of follow-up, and sets the record straight: the true statistic is that an unremarkable "majority...have a passing interest in Star Trek".

    (8) The Chicago Sun-Times picks up the LA Times story. Another editor does not see fit to perform any fact checking on this unusual statistic. I have no idea how much of the original story was present in this version of the article.

    (9) The story makes its way to Ohio, and yet a third newspaper editor lets the false statistic see print unchallenged. Except this time, the rest of the article is missing, and the statistic is now backed up by (non-existent) "records".

    THIS IS HOW RUMORS GET STARTED. THIS IS WHERE URBAN LEGENDS COME FROM. Five years from now, Snopes will still have a web page debunking the falsehood that 99% of pedophiles are hard-core Trekkies.

    (D)Ladowsky must have known it was false, but posted it to the blog anyway: It is not possible to Google the terms "Toronto Sex Crimes Unit" and "Star Trek" without getting MORE links to the debunking of the statistic than to the statistic itself. This makes Ladowsky a troll and her posting to the Huffington Blog a piece of flame-bait. I know I should not "feed the trolls", but as a wise mad once said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I will be sure to give future provocative postings from Ms. Ladowsky all (meaning: zero) the attention they deserve.


    Another good point! However, a headline that reads "Most innocent victims of pedophilia are fans of Star Trek and/or Sponge Bob" isn't inflammatory and therefore won't sell many papers. [​IMG]
     
  16. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Makes sense to me Joe.
     
  17. Hunter P

    Hunter P Screenwriter

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    Yes, but I think we can all conclude that watching Star Trek will make you become a sexual deviant. [​IMG]
     
  18. george kaplan

    george kaplan Executive Producer

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    I thought we all agreed that watching The Adventures of Pete & Pete was what made you a pervert. [​IMG]
     
  19. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

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  20. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Is asking your girlfriend to dress up as an orion slave girl or Princess leia in "Jedi" slave-girl (like Rachel did for Ross in Friends) gettup being deviant? [​IMG]
    Actually now that I typed that, it's interesting that they both are "slave-girls"....


    [​IMG] d
     

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