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Transfer problems with Bergman Boxset causes MGM to delay Release! (1 Viewer)

obscurelabel

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Larry
I found some links on "another forum" to fact sheets from the Swedish Film Institute which list the aspect ratios of the movies in question (excluding "Serpent's Egg"). (I can't read Swedish, but "Bildformat" seems to be the heading for the aspect ratio).

Persona

Hour of the Wolf

Shame

Passion of Anna

A link to the original thread:

"other forum" thread

According to the fact sheets, the ratios for all the movies is 1.37, except for Passion of Anna, which is 1.66.
 

andrew markworthy

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If you can play R2 discs, then nearly all of the titles in the box set are either already out or are scheduled to be released.

I would have cancelled, but my box set has been shipped. :frowning: However, on the bright side, I'm a Bergman nut, I've got/will have the R2 versions, and I will still welcome the extras.
 

Ted Todorov

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Yes, certainly. MK2, and Studio Canal for example, have many French language DVDs with English subs. The problem is finding a reliable source on subtitles, and one just doesn't exist. Amazon.fr is useless.

http://frenchfilmsondvd.com/ is trying hard. FWIW, they say that the R2 Camille Claudel does not have subs, but the R3 does.

On topic: I guess I'll be waiting for the dust to clear before buying any of the Bergman DVDs.

Ted
 

DonaldB

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And the UK R2 rights holder for the films not already released is...drum roll please...MGM.
 

Mattias_ka

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The "funny" thing is that EVEN IMDB had the right ratio of the movies. And that Criterion had before already released great looking LD's of some of these movies in right ratio over 10 years ago! :D
 

Seth--L

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Does anyone know if MGM at least redid the translations? I know the translation for the LD of Persona is a mess.
 

Jay E

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Just cancelled my pre-order.

I'll also wait for the dust to clear before buying this set. A real shame as I was so looking forward to it.
 

Hans M.

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I am keeping my order. I'm real interested in these films-- they can't be so horrendous that you cannot watch them. After seeing them for myself, I might decide to sell the set (or keep it). One thing I do not expect to happen: for MGM to correct this flagrant screw-up. These films have too small of following to ever make the noise necessary to make a dent in MGM’s decision, but maybe a second run will fix it (though that may be a while away).

I do agree it is utterly silly to make these films widescreen when they weren't filmed widescreen, but I bet MGM is playing to the hype of widescreen as so many "snobs" want only widescreen films, even if the films are not originally filmed widescreen. Yes, there are the full-frame idiots but there are also widescreen idiots.
 

Gary Tooze

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hans,

I harken back to composition... it is a VERY personal thing... I think the option of both aspect ratios (reverse side) would have resolved this... and only showing the widescreen has only created a debacle with fans entrenching on both sides. If this were an isolated incident we would be much more inclined to follow the studios policy ('policy' being the Machiavellian word for "deceit"), but since this is far from the first time that a major studio has shown little respect to classic films (Columbia's Apu Trilogy - the Warner Chaplin's both cropping away the pillar-boxing and PAL-NTSC 'ghosting' in Region 1, include in this Turner colorization), I am prepared to voice my opinion... now to the media as well. I am not concerned about MGM, they will survive. The more fuss that is made of this, perhaps the more major studios will start to treat these classic films with more respect. I can just imagine the "generic" buff (for lack of a better term) if this was Citizen Kane.. taking it from 1.37 -> 1.66 - and some, few, stalwart fans finding some, any, excuse to accept it. Here I go again... I better stop. The reason the major studios got so wealthy is they make the right monetary decisions... not necessarily the decisions with the most integrity (they are often diametrically opposed). I am certain if MGM does make a statement, it will be one persuading the masses that they are correct - I highly doubt they will admit fault... and why?... because they are again looking at their pocketbooks... the only way to make an impact on them is to sting them there. If we are too separated on this issue, then we are deemed a small disgruntled group - who essentially has no power - to them we are just a pest. If it is financially beneficial to MGM to redo these titles they will, if you all go ahead and buy the darn thing now, then why should they invest in redoing it... and doing it properly (if that means both ratios - so be it)?

Regards,
 
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Has anyone attempted to contact MGM Home Entertainment? (preferably by telephone since e-mails tend to get shuffled into the "we'll take care of it eventually" pile)
 

ShaunS

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I wonder, do studios like MGM give such projects as this to people who know anything at all about the films, or is it just a assembly line of technicians who have never seen them before? I wonder if the commentator was watching the same transfer that is being forced upon us? "Now, keep in mind, Bergman was skilled enough to not cut the tops off the heads of his actors. But those damn people at mgm..."

Considering the work that must have went into the extras and design, someone along the line must care about these films, right? Maybe it was just a matter of it being detected too late in the production process to go back and start all over (or at least too much money had been spent to go back and do all over).

Is it just that online forums like HTF and other web dvd review sites (that will hopefully pick up on this as well) just don't have enough clout or influence on the buying public for studios to think it worthwhile to fix their mistakes?

What's Bergman's phone number? I'm going to give him a call... ;)

ShaunS
 

Hans M.

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Gary, I respect your intentions and everyone else’s here, but I've been waiting for Persona since DVD came into existence. I am also sure the majority of fans of these films will not be enough to make a dent in MGM. BUT! If you want to try, I will join a cause for this, and, if I must, I will delay my purchase to see what happens in our fight...
 

Gary Tooze

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Thanks Hans,

My advice is buy a region free player... you'll enjoy more and better Bergmans and everything else the world has to offer... and Region Free machines have never been as cheap... don't be handcuffed by Region 1 especially if you like world cinema.



By buying the MGM boxset - what are you telling them ? Its okay to crop, distort and disrespect classic cinema. I can't imagine the uproar if this was Citizen Kane they were moving from 1.37 to 1.66...

Regards,
 

Thomas T

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I don't think the Citizen Kane/Persona comparison is quite apt.

In 1941 (the year of Kane's release), wide screen exhibition did not exist. In the 1967, the time of Persona's release, wide screen exhibition was the norm. I don't doubt Bergman shot Persona full frame but I also don't doubt that Persona was possibly slightly matted for some, I repeat some, theatrical exhibition (probably the U.S.) since films rarely exhibited in the Academy ratio in the 60's.

Of course, if the theatrical aspect ration vs. the original aspect ratio (or intended aspect ratio) don't match then you have the whole Once Upon A Time In Mexico brouhaha all over again.
 

Hans M.

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I actually have recently bought a region-free DVD player. Is the Persona from another region really better than this one? How is the price in comparison and what about extras?

I've been a little intimidated by the different regions of DVDs and the different versions with extras, sound and subtitle options. I have not done many comparisons. What are the definitive versions of these films, if not the new region 1s?
 

Brian PB

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Jan 31, 2003
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Hans M.:

I own the Tartan (R2 PAL/UK) release, and it is excellent as far as picture quality. There aren't many extras to speak of (no commentary track), but from what I've heard about the R1 MGM release, the commentary is pretty poor (certainly not up to Criterion standards). From DVD Beaver:

Persona (Tartan R2) Review
Comparison between R1 and R2 Persona

I almost sold my R2 Persona recently. Now I'm glad I waited ...
 

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