Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Pete T C, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. Pete T C

    Pete T C Second Unit

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  2. AaronSCH

    AaronSCH Second Unit

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    Nice review Pete though I am not surprised. I just can't believe the industry juggernaut is so steadfast in its support of Blu Ray. Perhaps the best from that format will be unveiled in the 4th quarter. But HD DVD clearly continues to score points with the early adopting consumers.
     
  3. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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    Blu-Ray also lost to HDDVD with Kiss Kiss Bang Bang:

    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/kisskissbangbang.html

    What's particularly interesting is that the HDDVD is only 15 gb! Yet Sony STILL says with a straight face that MPEG2 is better...

    And I very much doubt that the Sony and Pioneer players will "redeem" these transfers.
     
  4. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    Interesting....very interesting.
     
  5. Seth=L

    Seth=L Screenwriter

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    I believe HD-DVD is using dual-layer discs with aproximetly 30 gb. If that is true they currently have the highest capicity consumer movies on disc. If Sony gets a foot hold then they should start using dual-layer 50 gb discs.

    Seth=L
     
  6. Elayna Rainwater

    Elayna Rainwater Auditioning

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    So this is the first head to head comparison?
     
  7. Seth=L

    Seth=L Screenwriter

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    The first one I heard about. There is a link to another above to Kiss Kiss Bang Bang review of both formats. According to the review the HD-DVD is still a hair better but not by the same margin as with Training Day.

    Seth=L
     
  8. Elayna Rainwater

    Elayna Rainwater Auditioning

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    Thanks Seth.
     
  9. Seth=L

    Seth=L Screenwriter

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    no problem, this is fun.

    Seth=L
     
  10. RobertDW

    RobertDW Stunt Coordinator

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    KKBB is a combo disc with the HD DVD side being single layer or 15GB. Training Day is a dual layer 30GB disc.
     
  11. Pete T C

    Pete T C Second Unit

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    This is correct. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang has a DVD9 on one side and a 15gb HD DVD on the other side. Training Day is 30gb dual layer.

    Put simply, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang didn't need 30gb to look "perfect" while Training Day did at the time they were encoded. This is why MPEG2 Kiss Kiss Bang Bang looked almost as good w/25gb BD, while Training Day looked significantly worse. In other words, Training Day should have been a 50gb BD if MPEG2 was being used.

    Bottom line folks, Blu-Ray's sizes were built for MPEG2 - 25gb for shorter movies, 50gb for longer movies. HD DVD's sizes were built for VC-1 - 15gb for shorter movies, 30gb for longer movies. HD DVD was designed for more efficient codecs and hence larger sizes are unnecessary.
     
  12. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

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    Interesting article indeed. Just another hurdle BD has to clear by the 4th quarter if they plan to have a standing in this race. Probably with BD utilizing MPEG 4 for compression and the rave of 50 gigs on a disc will probably cast these issues in the archives and BD would be a tough competitor for the HD masses. It's good to see the comparison though.
     
  13. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I am sure this was probably mentioned already but (dumb question) I assume that both inputs were calibrated... the hdmi for the toshiba and the componenet for the samsung?
     
  14. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    What a predictable review. I pretty much quessed all the major conclusions before I read it.

    Suprise, suprise, NO suprise!
     
  15. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    The same reviewer was also surpised that Rumour Has It On Bd was not up to the HD DVD presentation. Some of the criticisms I suspect may come down to calibration issues, however when he mentions compression artifacting, and macroblocking- that's game over for me. When the disc noticeably displays that, it is immediately rendered the loser as these issues have been masked to such an extent with VC 1 on HD DVD, that I can't recall EVER seeing anything like this on any of the HD DVDs I've seen.

    and another thing to keep in mind- RHI is on a 15 gb HD DVD and a 25 gb Blu-ray disc.
     
  16. Brian_Pete

    Brian_Pete Stunt Coordinator

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    He also compared them both on the component inputs.

    From the video section of the Training Day review - 'I also compared both the Toshiba and the Samsung via component out to ensure the most fair comparison possible between the two discs.'
     
  17. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    As I stated in a related thread on this subject:

    It's especially notable that Warner had to drop the Dolby Digital-Plus tracks on all three of these titles in order to provide higher bit rates for the MPEG2 codec, and still couldn't quite match the video quality of the transfers of their HD-DVD VC-1 codec discs. This is particularly astonishing when one considers that with Rumor Has it and Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang Blu-ray had 25GB of space to work with vs. only 15GB for the HD-DVD counterparts!! (The HD-DVD discs of these two titles were hybrids with a standard DVD transfer on the flip side of the disc; due to that feature they were restricted to single-layer on the HD-DVD side. Most stand-alone HD-DVD titles have 30GB of space to work with.)
     
  18. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Any reviews done without the Samsung DNR bug?

    Unlikely. So take these reviews with a slight grain of salt (DNR can increase banding, for example)
     
  19. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    I can't say that the results of the comparisons suprised me. I also would say that it was not a fair head to head comparison. This head to head should have happened with a title that both used newer codex's. So comparing an MPEG2 disc to an VC-1 disc is alittle unfair. While HD-DVD has gained my respect and I will be buying a player soon. I would like to see a heads up once there is a title that uses the same codex on both formats.

    I would also like to see that heads up comparison made using the upcoming Sony or Pioneer Blu-ray player, not the Samsung. Only then do I think we will see which format is best. I can only hope that by the end of the year we will have VC-1 disc's for Blu-ray so we can get this issue past us.
     
  20. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    WoW
    This is a HUGE HUGE day in the history of HD disc.
    Been looking forward to this date, for a month.
    Let the War began!

    However...
    I'm reserving judgement till the one & only Blu (Sammy) get's fixed.
    This is fun, just not a level playing field at this time, IMO.
     

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