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Toy Story 4 (2019)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Jake Lipson, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    I admit I forgot about those!

    Maybe this is a copout on my part, but I don't see the specials as an issue as they're not "canon" to me in the same way. I view the movies as a separate beast and don't really view the specials as something that possibly "ruins" the ending of the cinematic trilogy.

    Kinda like the way I see the "Star Wars" movies and various other enterprises as different creatures.

    "TS3" ended the film series - or so it seemed - on the right note. An additional movie alters that to me in a way specials or shorts don't...
     
  2. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    I agree with you there - after all, Rex, Slinky, Hamm and others had little to do - but even so, Potato seemed awfully quiet.

    I can recall instances where the others got lines/action but Potato felt borderline non-existent - he seemed to lurk in the shots but never say anything.

    Could be a mistaken memory on my part but my impression was that even in a movie that neglected the original supporting cast, he was left on the sidelines...
     
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  3. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    You very well could be correct -- like I said, I only saw it once, on opening night and haven't been back yet -- but I feel like that's probably the best they could do given the circumstances. At least he's in it at all.

    The specials and shorts are canon. Pixar made them with the original cast. They count. What they don't do is change the status of the lives of the toys in a substantial way in the way that the films do. They're fun little adventures, and then they're over. None of the films fall into this category because each of them feature substantial progression where the stasis for the characters at the end of the film has changed substantially from where it was when the film began.
     
  4. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    I shouldn't have said "canon". I don't argue they're not part of the real "'Toy Story' Universe" and they "don't count".

    I just see them as ancillary to the films in a way that means they didn't invalidate the "end of the story" I felt we got with "TS3".

    That film finished the arc for me but it didn't feel damaged by the specials. Like I said, I view the specials and the movies as separate beasts - all part of "canon" but just a different impact...
     
  5. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Again, I think that's because the shorts/specials don't actually move the narrative forward. They're fun little one-offs that are enjoyable to watch, but they are self-contained in that at the end of them, everything is the same as before they started. The films are far more substantial because the films focus on huge events that fundamentally change the toys' lives and progress their characters in major ways. Toy Story 4 builds on the events of the previous films and you need to have seen them all in order to get the full impact of it, but you could skip watching the specials because nothing that fundamentally changes the story happens in them. They're just fun little diversions, which isn't a bad thing but contributes to the distinction you're making.
     
  6. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    BTW, has everyone seen that Disney has cut the scene in Toy Story 2 after the credits with Stinky Pete and the Barbies? It is apparently gone from the UHD versions of the film. It's too much of a "casting couch" type thing and was deemed inappropriate, much like how they deleted the crows sequence from the original Dumbo.

    Personally, I think they should have left the scene alone (I'm not in favor of changing films 10, 20 or 80 years after the fact). Yes, it's taboo in our current culture (and rightfully so), but I think films are artifacts of their time and should be preserved.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/03/movies/toy-story-2-casting-couch-scene-scli-intl/index.html?utm_term=link&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-07-03T13%3A31%3A58&utm_source=fbCNNi&fbclid=IwAR0oAhjjdboT2zuZtVdiGtrTMCDI-3tz1vV9H_vpYOYWUexER_73Dm_qn1w
     
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  7. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    benbess and Tommy R like this.
  8. DKO

    DKO Auditioning

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    The Star Wars formula applied to Toy Story. Interesting thought. haha
     
  9. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Huh? I don't follow.
     
  10. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    I saw this for the second time today and unsurprisingly it held up beautifully. The ending seemed more natural and less jarring than when I didn't know what it was going to be.

    Most people stayed partway through the credits for the mid-credits scenes but I was the only one to stay for the very, very end tag.
     
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  11. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    Hey everybody!

    I'm always late to a good party.

    I have stayed away from this thread until I had the chance to see the film for myself.

    Peg and I saw an afternoon matinee today...with about three other small groups of people.

    We both gave it a thumbs down. In fat, BIG thumbs down.

    Pixar finally hit the time where they should have quit while they were ahead. I was skeptical when they greenlit TS 2 and TS3...and they both turned out to be worthy of the original. While I was optimistic that TS4 would continue the string of TS success, I was left sorely disappointed.

    Where to begin...

    Well, there's the beginning of the film with the "flashback" to RC being washed away in the storm gutter during a heavy rain. While I "get" that the purpose of the scene was to establish Bo's absence from the group, it seemed like a predictable "a toy's in trouble, let's initiate a daring mission to save it" situation. And, in short, that was my main problem with the entire film. It seemed to me as if there wasn't as much heart in the film...the toys just kept jumping from one action sequence to another. How many times can the toys throw themselves out a window to initiate an adventure which involves them bouncing off any number of fixed objects?

    The whole trash/toy dilemma for Forky got old for me really, really quick.

    There were several amusing moments in the film. I was surprised that I liked Duke Caboom so much! I was crazed when I heard Mel Brooks' voice in the film! The grape soda cap from Up, The Tin Toy, Combat Carl(s), etc. I did NOT think the addition of Bunny and Ducky added all that much.

    The couple of new songs from Randy Newman...have already been forgotten by me.

    As for Gabby Gabby...she was clearly set up as a "bad guy" even with the requisite posse of henchmen. When Woody returned to rescue Forky the last time, she was conning him with all the info which she had gotten from Forky about Woody's past (in order to convince him that she needed his unbroken voicebox to hae her chance at a relationship with a kid). Woody was totally buffaloed by it and acquiesced. She then fails to get her kid (via Harmony) and Woody goes to bat for her (backed up by Bo)...and apparently the writers felt no need for Gabby to even apologize for her deceptive ruse.

    This may be my "old man" status, but I was also horrified to see the toys take over the operation of the parents' rented RV--especially to the point of screwing with the accelerator. Didn't seem like a good message to be sending to youngsters, but I sure I'm overthinking that.

    And then there was the ending.
    I hated the ending. I understand that Woody felt like Bonnie didn't need him, but to give up his loyal service to his kid along with the companionship of the core group of toys for a...girl. It just doesn't feel right to me.

    I'll be going back now to read through the thread (when time allows) and see if I'm alone in my opinions. :laugh:
     
  12. Message #172 of 200 Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
    Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    What message are you concerned about kids taking away from it? I fail to see the problem. This is a fictional universe in which toys come to life, but since toys don't actually come to life, most reasonable kids would not assume that their toys can drive an RV.

    I don't think this is any "worse" than Hank and Dory commandeering the truck in Finding Dory, or Jack-Jack and Violet being driven (by the self-driving car) to where their parents are in the climax of Incredibles 2. Do you have a problem with those scenes too? It's a fantasy, and the audience should know that it is. It's fine. If a child is actually concerned about their toys driving an RV after watching this, his or her parents need to have a discussion with that kid about what reality is.

    Again, I fail to see a ruse here. Yes, she is manipulating him by referencing Andy. But he knows that. How is that deceiving him? Her basic premise in that scene (that being there for a kid is the most noble thing a toy can do) is still something Woody would fundamentally agree with, whether or not she mentioned Andy.
     
  13. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    Jake:

    You misunderstood my concern. It's got nothing to do with toys commandeering a vehicle, just the idea that it can be funny in any way to fiddle with a vehicle's accelerator. But as I wrote, I'm sure that's just me being overly crusty and grandfatherly.

    As for Gabby, Woody did not want to give up his voice box until she plied him with illicit information gained from holding an unwitting accomplice hostage through force. Gabby's agenda was clear from the outset...but the only way she could achieve it was to menace Woody and Forky through physical and emotional force. She could have tried to reason with him and convince him of her need, but she didn't because she couldn't. She tried to physically rip the voice box out of Woody and when that didn't work, she figured to trick him out of it through emotional manipulation. She then had no turn-around from her role as a conniving bad guy and the point in which Woody and Bo came to her aid. She had only become a pathetic outcast after her attempt to attract Harmony with the refurbished voice box, nothing more. All she would have needed to satisfy me was a short conversation with Woody asking his forgiveness for the hell she put him through (resulting in his giving up an important part of his toyhood--his ability to speak to children) which, at that time, appeared fruitless.

    Gabby acted badly and any character change should have been made clear to the audience. She never showed any concern for Woody's well-being at all. The full realization of that final act of the movie left me empty (aside from Woody's final decision and the resultant scenes with the ensemble) because of that simple lack of contrition.
     
  14. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    Mike, Woody didn’t give up his devotion to Bonny for a...girl. To paraphrase Frau Blucher, “She was his girlfriend!” In the first TS it’s strongly hinted that the two had an attraction. Between the fact the Bonny would be ok and the fact that Bo was the love of his life, I found his decision natural.
     
  15. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    I was very much aware of that, Johnny. But to me the decision seemed to hinge more on the choice of being an unattached toy versus life as a toy with a special child.
     
  16. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    I have to disagree. His choice was to be with Bonny or Bo. That’s how I interpreted it.
     
  17. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    The only thing I'll say to that concern is this:

    In all the prior movies (especially TS2), Woody was told in different ways the existing toys couldn't do X, Y or Z thing without him. That line of reasoning made him change his mind about going to Japan in TS2. In TS4, at the end, The entire gang-especially Buzz-tell Woody they will be fine without him. When Woody hears that, a huge weight is lifted off his shoulders and he can finally be okay leaving them behind.

    Had Buzz said "we need you," the ending of the movie is 100% different. I do think it took great maturity on all their part to understand life doesn't allow people to stay together forever and sometimes you have to let friends move on. It's sad and heartbreaking, but that is how life works.
     
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  18. Keith Cobby

    Keith Cobby Cinematographer

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    I haven't seen this yet and a big part of me doesn't want to see it at all. From what I have read it is Indiana Jones 4 and Star Wars 1-3. In other words why corrupt a fantastic trilogy. Great art needs to be left alone.
     
  19. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    I would not be so harsh. I barely noticed it being any different than the first 3.
     
  20. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    I would be that harsh.

    Just sayin'.
     

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