Toy Story 2: Special Edition..... due Dec. 26th (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

Equipment:

BenQ 8700+ 720P DLP projector fed a 720P-scaled signal via DVI from my OPPO DVD player. Dalite hi-power 16x9 screen 106 inch diagonal. Calibrated with AVIA. Viewing distance approximately 1.6 screen-widths distance.

Audio: B&K AVR212 processor/pre-amp, NAD power amplifier, Onix "Rocket" speakers.

I mention this in every HTF review...sorry for not mentioning it again in this thread...I just get used to most HTF readers being familiar with my past reviews.





Ravi,

Quite true. Everything that was true for the 10th Anniversary version of TS1 holds true here (as far as AV quality), so your thoughts are 100% spot-on. The new 5.1 DTS mix is dramatically better than the old DD 5.1 (EX) mix. I know I know...none of us thought it could be improved...but even just in the opening scene the new DTS mix *smokes* the old DVD's audio!!!

-dave

 

[CraigF]

I'm all for dts, and that's the only reason I'm keeping the 10th TS1. On a 57" screen the PQ improvement is IMO not worth the price...had the UTB already. With a projector, a tiny DVD improvement becomes much more noticeable, so it's understandable that the PJ people would prefer it. I doubt anybody would see a difference between the 10th and the UTB *unless* they already knew they were different and were looking hard for it, on a "smaller" screen.

But I understand TS has been OOP in the U.S. for quite some time, and I sure know many people wanted it (had some for sale), so this is their chance to get it. For those with the UTB, those versions still stand up as excellent, far better than some discs that pass for "reference"...and now they've been improved. So everybody wins. Like any double (triple) dip, you have to decide for yourself: do you want something new, something you like better, or something a tiny bit improved? Like, just how often do you watch TS that you need a better version than the UTB? Only you know...

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Agreed,

Viewers who watch from more than 1.75 screen widths from their displays might not find that the PQ improvements justify a new purchase at this time. Audioholics who need to hear the new DTS mix will be sorely tempted...but of course you *know* we're going to get this on Blu-ray...at some point...so if you can be patient enough you'll have another chance to get some *serious* improvements in HD!

 

[Mike Frezon]

I look forward to posting my thoughts on the DTS track in Dave's official review thread.

I haven't had a chance to listen yet. But I will soon.

I'm sure the video differences will be inconsequential to me on my 28" WS HD CRT (but maybe someday I'll have a projector!).

The deal I got this week and my particular affinity for these two films (plus my curiosity about the DTS AND Dave's enthusiasm for it) add up to the reasons why I considered this double-dip worth it for me.

 

[CraigF]

Gee, I *never* would have guessed.

Edit: Actually, I'd like to know about David's PJ setup. Not the electronics so much, but the physical arrangement in his room. I vaguely remember him telling us about it when he got it but have no idea what post it was in. David: did you ever discuss this (maybe with photos?) in the HT building forum too? I have some operating requirements that you may have run into/considered IIRC. Thanks.

 

[Alex-A]

I've just gotten this from the store, but I haven't yet had a chance to watch/listen to it.

Everything looks really nice, but as soon as I flipped the case over to the back, my instant reaction was something along the lines of..."Porra! The damn "cut-the-UPC-out-of-the-slipcover" routine has gotten worse! Now its not just the UPC that's cut out. No, this one has it's own little window.

I love the fact that I don't have to track down the expensive UTB to own these great films, but having TS1's slipcover completely intact while this one has a huge hole in it is just ridiculous.

 

[Porfirio]

Aside from the shorts, what other UTB features are missing on the TS/TS2 re-issues?

 

[andrew markworthy]

There are times when I worry about the eyesight of my fellow HTF members. I have a 27" screen and as I've said before, the difference on TS1 leapt out at me. I am well aware of the perils of pre-loading the judgement but in fact I was all set to grumble about the lack of difference (I bought the disc to replace a damaged one) - in other words, I wasn't expecting an improvement.

I'm sure that folks with 100000000000" (or whatever) screens will see faults/differences more easily (in fact, given the number of problems some big screen owners complain about re: practically every new disc that comes along, I'm amazed they've kept their systems, because everything they watch seems to be wrong ), but I promise you that if your system is properly calibrated and you are watching attentively, the improvement is there.

 

[CraigF]

I am attentive to the story. I don't *want* to be attentive to the PQ and SQ. So when I complain about either, they have problems that I couldn't ignore, or are very obvious. I do not watch like I'm a reviewer for a forum with very picky members. It's entertainment, not a job, and I don't like to put "effort" into it.

BTW, do you have the UTB versions? They seemed better to me than the original versions (why I ditched them). Watching PAL versions by any chance? You can come over and see for yourself there's negligible diff, and that everything's set up properly (it is), I'm picky about that.

Edit: Oh yeah, I should say I'm using component TV input. The new TS1 may have the type of improvement that my Sony just can't show by that means. Or that my RP82 just can't put out. IOW, the UTB TS's may be as good as my equipment is capable of displaying, *so nothing will look better*...may have hit the wall of equip limitation...bound to happen, and I didn't know it was a few years ago.

 

[John Berggren]

Has anyone posted a side by side comparison of these 2 releases to the Ultimate Toy Box?
I know the vid quality is vastly improved on the first release, but what about special features?

 

[Mike Frezon]

Alex: These little windows are becoming more prevalent as the cardboard slipcases themselves are becoming more prevalent.

The windows are being used to prevent ne'er-do-wells from slipping more-expensive DVDs into the slipcases of less-expensive DVDs and paying less for them.

Unfortunately, the windows often lead to damaged slipcases. The narrow bands of thin cardboard around the windows often get damaged in shipping or in handling by store employees.

 

[Mike Frezon]

HERE is DVD Beaver's look at the UTB TS and the 10th Anniversary Edition of TS.

I believe David's review of the 10th Anniversary TS did a side-by-side of the bonus features of the UTB and the 10th AE.

For the life of me I cannot find the review using the HTF's search engine. Maybe David can provide a link for us.

 

[George_W_K]

Here's the Toy Story 10th Anniversary Review by David.

Mike, you were the last post!

 

[CraigF]

FWIW, the HTF search engine doesn't work properly if you search for a reviewed title in "titles only"...I've been fooled many times and only found that out this week!! I don't know why, I'm sure it's been mentioned numerous times elsewhere, probably a logical reason...

Just wanted to say, Gary's review is not of the UTB discs, but of the 2-pack...I'm pretty sure that was a combo of the original discs. Anyway, it only amplifies the point. You *may* need a high BW player->display connection to get the PQ benefit. My speculation only. PAL has a "natural" resolution benefit so differences may be more apparent with those versions.

I am thinking, pure speculation again mind you, that if you *can't* see much diff between the UTB and the new versions, it may be time for a video chain upgrade. Perhaps David can put some meat behind this. Or not. And you thought you'd save $20 by not buying the disc? Buying it could cost you a small fortune in the long run. I'm sure this'll come out one way or the other as TS's are IMO deservedly common reference discs.

 

[Mike Frezon]

George: Just call me "thread killer"!

I thought I had just seen that thread around here!

Craig: That is good info about the HTF search engine. It has never been "right". Maybe I need to stay away from title searches.

I'd LOVE to splurge on new gear to see the "video" differences in the new TS movies. But unless the New York State lottery comes through for me...I think I'll have to be satisfied with concentrating on listening for improvements in the DTS track over the DD for awhile.

 

[Porfirio]

Thanks for the link George_W_K.

 

[Dave Mack]

I can see a subtle improvement in the beaver comp. shots. Look at the teeth on the t-rex. On a 92" screen, (or 106" like Dave's) I can imagine that they would seem much more pronounced.

d

 

[James W. Johnson]

Ok, well now I have to go buy these just for the sake of knowing where I sit these days in terms of things video wise...not only my equipment but my vision and interpretation.

Sorry if I came off a bit pushy but I normally dont reply in this area as its not my main gig but I felt kind of strong about this particular set of discs....I mean the UTB was and still is one of the finest DVD sets around.

My gear is not the best but feel I am pretty picky, I sit 9' away from a 6' wide screen with Da-Lite High Power fabric. Projector is an Infocus 4805 fed by an Onkyo SP502 ..this set-up looks as good as my old Denon DVD-2900.
I am currently looking around for a player that can 1:1 pixel map on my 4805 just too see if I cannot get a touch more performance.


Anyhow so there is only 1 version of each TS1 and TS2 out right now? I dont want to get the wrong versions.
I see in the review of the 10th Anniversary Toy Story there is a Silver slip cover..I did not see that on the copies at Best Buy, is that a limited slip cover or something?

I plan on doing some serious A/Bing on the UTB vs these new versions tonight. I'll take some pics with my Canon A610 if I feel there is any differences that are capturable via a camera.

 

[Matt Czyz]

That was the original cover art before it was revised to the blue cover art, which is what was ultimately used.

 

[CraigF]

Dave: that is a comparison between the *original* version and the latest. Even on my pathetic 57 incher I could easily see a diff between the original and the UTB, there was no doubt the UTB version was slightly superior. I think what some were questioning, and my speculative proposal for a "system BW upgrade flag", is the diff between the UTB and the latest version. That's where we get into even finer PQ subtleties.

The thing about lower bandwidth connections and video components is that they will effectively limit the amount of info transfer. In the analog (component connection) world that will, for one thing, mean less sharply defined edges, a bit of "smudginess" to everything. There are test discs that attempt to show this, but nothing beats a good pic for an amateur, easier to get a tangible grip on just what's happening.

Bottom line: to get the most out of these new TS's, you will likely need a DVI/HDMI interface. For that matter, your old TS's will look better with it too. If people are loving the current new discs so much, imagine what the next ones will be like.