Tower/bookshelf comparison data.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tom Vodhanel, Nov 4, 2001.

  1. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Here's a rundown on the stuff I could find by Tom Nousaine over the last 3 years.
    " * " indicates a *powered* subwoofer is built into the speaker. This is bass performance only of course.(for reference a single basic $250 8" dedicated subwoofer like the phase tech power8 hit 84dB/25hz).
    I also included approx dimensions,
    TOWERS.(25hz extension)
    Athena S3/P3(11x51x13")25hz~87dB/25-63hz(avg)~97*
    Paradigm Monitor11(8x43x14")25hz~84dB
    DT Pro Tower400(8x38x11")25hz~81dB/25-63hz(avg)~89dB*
    Boston Acoustics VR975(6x48x15")25hz~78dB*
    DT 2002TL(7x46x16")25hz~80dB*
    BW CM4(8x36x11")25hz~75dB
    Infinity IL40(10x40x12")25hz~73dB
    DT 2006TL(6x38x12")25hz~73dB/25-63(avg)~88.4dB*
    Klipsch SF-2(8x35x13")25hz~71dB
    TOWERS.(32hz)
    Acoustic Research AR9(9x37x17")32hz~98.7dB*
    Acoustic Research AR1(10x44x20")32hz93.7*
    Paradigm Legend(8x37x12")32hz~87dB*
    Infinity RS-8(7x40x12)32hz~87dB*
    Martin Logan Scenario(10x47x16")32hz~72dB
    TOWERS(40hz)
    JAMO E870(7x40x14")40hz~93dB
    Monsoon FPF-1000(7x37x13)40hz~92dB
    Wharfedale(9x37x13)40hz~90dB
    PSB Image 4T(7x37x13)40hz~87dB
    PSB Alpha-T(7x35x12)40hz~84dB
    TOWERS(50hz)
    AR Phantom8.3(12x28x4)50hz~66dB
    ----------------------
    BOOKSHELF
    40hz
    POLK RT25i (7x11x10)40hz~88dB
    BW DM602-S2(9x19x12)40hz~68dB
    Phase Tech Teatro(7x12x8")40hz~68dB
    Klipsch RB-5(9x17x13")40hz~67dB
    50hz
    Mission M72(8x14x12")50hz~82dB
    BW DM601(14x8x10")50hz~76dB
    DT Powermonitor(7x17x14)50hz~76dB*
    Cerwin Vega E706(14x8x9")50hz~75dB
    Boston Acoustics Micro ref.(6x10x8")50hz~75dB
    PSB Image3(23x6x11)50hz~75dB
    BW DM303(8x13x10")50hz~71dB
    62hz
    Pinnacle Classic Gold(13x7x8")62hz~80dB
    Tannoy R1(12x7x8")62hz~75dB
    Phase Tech Teatro 2.5(10x7x8")62hz~71dB
    Cambridge MC300(5x13x7")62hz~64dB
    Hafler VRM6(8x13x9")62hz~73dB
    MISSION Ms70B(6x10x6)62hz~66dB
    80hz
    Atlantic Tech 271(7x14x8")80hz~84dB
    Klipsch 1.1(6x11x7")80hz~82dB
    Velodyne CT41(6x9x6")80hz~79dB
    JBL N24(6x10x5)80hz~77dB
    Energy 2.2(4x7x7")80hz~77dB
    Infinity MS-1(6x11x4)80hz~74dB
    MK K5(7x5x6)80hz~73dB
    Energy Encore(5x7x8")80hz~72dB
    Paradigm V.1(4x7x6")80hz~71dB
    RBH MM-4(5x7x4")80hz~71dB
    PSB Alpha Intro(4x7x6")80hz~76dB
    TV
     
  2. Bob_M

    Bob_M Stunt Coordinator

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    Interesting data Tom.
    Wow the POLK RT25i did pretty good considering their size.
    Bob
     
  3. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Tom,
    Wow thanks for the info! Only goes to show that I made the
    right choice with my AR9's! 32Hz @ 98 DB!!! [​IMG] Not bad for
    a tower without an amp in it [​IMG]
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Brett DiMichele
    My Home Theater Site!
    [email protected]
     
  4. JerryW

    JerryW Supporting Actor

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    Right you are Bob... Damn, that CAN'T be right. [​IMG]
    http://www.polkaudio.com/home/produc...y=4&speaker=26
    Size: 11-1/8" H x 6-5/8" W x 10-3/8" D
    Gotta be a typo.
    ------------------
    September 11, 2001
    "Those who died will always be remembered.
    Those who killed will never be forgotten.
    We who remain will not let it happen again."
     
  5. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Brett have you compared the bass performance of the AR9 to the AR1? According to this data, the former would outperform the latter (at least at 32Hz)...doesn't the AR1 have a built in 15 inch 500 watt sub?
    Could someone clarify something for me...here, the Paradigm Monitor 11's have more output at 25Hz than DT 2002TL...in a home setup, could one really expect more shake from Monitor 11's than a 2002TL???
     
  6. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Tom the data gathering is appreciated...but people should keep in mind that these are comparisons of loudspeakers at ONE frequency...IMHO not really an indicator of overall bass performance.
     
  7. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Tom,
    Nice work, interesting data.
    Do you have any data for the NHT 3.3 towers? If I mail you a few magazine/lab reviews, would you be able to tell if the NHT results are apples & apples with the Nousaine Data?
    3.3s are 7Wx42Hx31D, same 12inch driver as and slightly smaller cabinet (2.7 vs 3.1) than NHT SW3P sub. Both are tuned to 27hz.
    Thanks,
    Ricky
     
  8. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    The Polk Data on the RT25i is from a JAN/2001 shoot off. It appears to be accurate as the Polk center(245i) also reached 40hz/70dB and the surrounds(RT15i) hit 40hz/65dB.
    I thought the AR9s were powered too, My bad...I'll take the "*".
    >>>According to this data, the former would outperform the latter (at least at 32Hz)...doesn't the AR1 have a built in 15 inch 500 watt sub?>Could someone clarify something for me...here, the Paradigm Monitor 11's have more output at 25Hz than DT 2002TL...in a home setup, could one really expect more shake from Monitor 11's than a 2002TL???>Tom the data gathering is appreciated...but people should keep in mind that these are comparisons of loudspeakers at ONE frequency...IMHO not really an indicator of overall bass performance.
     
  9. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    TV,
    The magazines are: Stereophile, Sound & Image, The Absolute Sound, The Audio Critic, The Sensible Sound. If you email me your address, I'll send you copies.
    Thanks,
    Ricky
     
  10. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Bob_A,
    I haven't had the pleasure of comparing the AR-1 to the AR-9
    but as you stated the AR-1 is indeed a 15" 500 Watt Carver
    powered tower where as the AR-9 is a passive 10" non powered
    design. The AR-5 is the powered version of the AR-9 (175watt
    carver powered)
    I beleive there has to be a typo in there somewhere.. The
    specs for the AR-1 should be in the 25Hz range not 32!
    Even so a solidly clean 32Hz output out of a tower is a great
    start.. No it's no sub for sure but at the price you can buy
    AR-9's for it's a steal to have a nearly 100 Decibel performer
    at 32Hz! [​IMG]
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Brett DiMichele
    My Home Theater Site!
    [email protected]
     
  11. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    One other thing i'd like to mention about the AR-9's is that
    I am only driving mine with a meesly 100 watts per channel
    for both the mids/high and the lows. Since the AR-5's have
    a dedicated TDC Carver/Sunfire amp pushing 175 watts to just
    the subs we can reason that I am *barely* pushing my 100's
    with the 100 watts I am feeding them. But even so, at 100w
    I can say these are *very* enjoyable even though I don't have
    a dedicated sub *yet*. When I recently watched Final Fantasy
    on DVD the LFE effects (mains set to large/no sub) were nothing
    short of astounding.. No localizable sub output that had the
    walls rattling in the whole house! Especialy when those space
    craft were taking off and landing *woof* [​IMG]
    IMHO AR's Hi-Res series is one heck of a speaker even if ya
    paid full retail! (which I didn't)
    Also seeing an indipendant test confirms AR's specs for these
    speakers now I can say that I honestly beleive the ARS500
    in all likelyhood does hit it's manufacturer projected 18Hz
    most likely "clean"
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Brett DiMichele
    My Home Theater Site!
    [email protected]
     
  12. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Brett you make a good point...a nonpowered tower might test better at a certain frequency...but you have to wonder, how much power would you need to feed it to "outperform" a powered tower in the lower frequencies? IMHO, realistically you should feel much more bass output with a powered tower than other nonpowered towers in the price range, particularly since each woofer has its own amplifier built into the speaker.
     
  13. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Bob,
    It all depends on what your willing to feed them I guess.
    With the AR-5's you are "stuck" with 175 watts per sub no
    matter what you do. Unless you were to physicly do some
    internal rewiring, though I don't know how much more power
    a 10" can take.
    The AR-5's generaly sell for $500.00 or so, more than the
    AR-9's so I figured for the extra money I could just invest
    in a pair of 2 channel monoblock amps to Bi-Amp the 9's.
    I can pick up a set of Onkyo MT208 amps that output 100wpc
    x2 channels and send 200 watts to the 9's with 100 of those
    watts being dedicated to the sub. That should be more than
    adequate to drive to full potential, especialy when considering
    that they are a very high eficiency tower to begin with.
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
    Brett DiMichele
    My Home Theater Site!
    [email protected]
     
  14. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    I think in your case Brett, the AR9's could definitely outperform the AR5's since the 9 seems like a passive version of the 5...just like an SVS CS can outperform an SVS PC.
    As for the data for AR1 vs. AR9...at least from what I see on the S&V webpage, it is as Tom listed. But the AR1 is tested at +/- 5.6db from 20Hz-20KHz, while the AR9 is tested as +/- 6.3db at 37Hz-20KHz...whatever this means.
    [Edited last by Bob_A on November 04, 2001 at 03:38 PM]
    [Edited last by Bob_A on November 04, 2001 at 03:46 PM]
     
  15. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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