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Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Chris S, Jan 4, 2007.
yes exactly.... Marek
Business schools thrive on statistics and the attainment of them. Now Warner wants to sell products that will not tell which format is driving disc sales. Only studios that originally supported HD DVD are going the hair brain combo route and that's the problem. I would understand if all studios were going format neutral but that isn't the case is it? That's why I consider Warners defection akin to betrayal.
Fair enough...I didn't see that from Amir. It's often hard to sift thru avs. Some good info for sure....but it can be the most impulsive, knee jerk responsed, nanana boo boo I have more bits than you forum on the net.
There is only 1 thing keeping this "war" going. If Universal started putting out Blu-Ray movies, there would be no reason to buy HD-DVD anymore. Warner and Paramount are already putting out both formats, so the fact they will just do so on one disc doesn't really change things much.
Right. All the HD-DVD player owners could just throw out their $500 machines and buy $1,000 Blu Ray players like good little sheep. Makes perfect sense. Regards, Joe
And Warner is "akin to betrayal" and "choosing sides" (how bad!), while most of the studios aren't even releasing anything on one of the formats (and many not very much on the other, BTW). Some logic here. Cees
I see the hybrid as another screw job by Warner. First they screwed HD DVD owners by offering certain titles only in combo format, no HD DVD only version. That forced the purchase of a SD DVD in order to get the HD DVD version. Oh yeah, they charged more for that preparing everyone to pay more for the hybrid disc. BTW you can bet Warner is gonna release ALL of the blockbusters on hybrid disc while charging a premium in the process. Welcome to Warner HD disc ladies and gentlemen.
WB has produced consistently excellent HD discs since last April. I don't get all of the hatred.
Well, Blu-Ray has every major studio but 1 at this point. Many people are waiting for a single "industry standard" so that they will feel safe buying HD media on disc. The pressure is going to be on Universal to just end this so they can start the next format since DVD sales are finally going flat. If people could stop looking at this emotionally and look at it from a rational point of view, they'd see that if Universal started putting out BD product, the flood gates might open. All of a sudden you can stop worrying about what format it is and just worry about which movies you are picking up next Tuesday like DVD. The fact that the LG player can play both formats with the same exact hardware should tell people that there's really a dime's worth of difference between the 2 as far as the technology is concerned. This is all strictly about how the same exact codecs are stored on a disc. One side is hugging a Blu-Ray reader and the other a HD-DVD reader. If you want to break it down further, the only difference between the 2 is where the same exact laser lens focuses on a plastic disc. This is obviously worth getting angry over... not.
Universal's defection to BD wouldn't guarantee anything. How do we know the average joe is worried about studio support? Something tells me he's probably wary of the $1000 price tag more than anything. BD would still have to overcome that.
If you think the average joe is worried about any format where the discs cost more then $20, you are totally off base. Until the new release discs hit $20 or less, it's not a replacement for DVD.
Yes, disc prices are something that both formats have to overcome. However, I wouldn't doubt that the average customer would rather pay $500 for a player rather than $1000. In the end, that could make a big difference. I support both formats, and I have very little interest in who "wins" (realistically, I think both are going to be around for a good while), but I do believe that Blu-ray's pricing leaves the format with more to overcome than HD-DVD's lack of studio support in the eyes of the average customer, and it's those average customers who will determine the outcome.
The huge difference between Hd DVD and Blu-Ray is execution. HD DVD has been relatively consistently good, while Blu-Ray has been lackluster to poor. Only recently has Blu-Ray began to up the ante with better transfers and I doubt they would give a care if HD DVD weren't kicking their collective butts.
Until 100% of households have an HD monitor no hi-def format is going to be a replacement for DVD. This is where posting in an enthusiast echo-chamber like this one distorts peoples' perceptions. There is simply no question of either hi-def format replacing SD-DVD in the near future. Hell, SD-DVD hasn't completely replaced VHS tape for prerecorded material yet. HDTV itself is still a niche product, albeit a rapidly growing one. HDTV is maybe where DVD was in 2000. For hi-def DVD it is still 1997. It is way too early to talk about this stuff "replacing" DVD and it helps to keep that in mind when discussing these things. In the real world, where most people don't even have a receiver connected to their DVD player or TV, people are not going to choose an HD format to go with their HDTV based on which of several high-end audio systems they've never heard of it supports, or if the sound is encoded using a "lossless" technology. They're going to buy based on cost and how useful the disc will be in the way they watch DVDs every day. If I can buy a $500 player to use with my HDTV (listening to the built-in speakers) and I can also get discs to play in my player that will also play in my cousin's Blu Ray player (even if they cost a couple of dollars more) why would I not do so? Regards, Joe
I think that a primary motivation for this "Total HD" format from warner is that they may see this war ending within a year or so. In addition to only having one sku in the stores, they will not be stuck with unsalable product sitting on the shelves if one of the formats "loses". Every disc on the shelves will still be a viable product should one of the formats die out.
some spirited discussion here to say the least. They? HD DVDs and BD aren't "they"... they are just discs released by studios.... in some cases studios just releasing one format and in some cases studios releasing both. Sony seems to have lacked some insight in their mastering of HD media. We saw this on their early BD discs. But Warner has their act together and both their BD and HD DVD media are THE SAME... they use exactly the same video encodes. The minute that VC1 hit 25GB BD (months ago) the tide turned and BD discs have been just fine... except for the occasional indivudiual studio-mastering blunder. Were Sony to make an HD DVD (in theory here, they never would of course), it would look "as bad" as their BD discs. Were Universal to release King Kong or Hulk on BD using the same encode as on their HD DVDs, the results would look just as spectacular. It's important to understand this. People talk about the formats like the format itself or the company who invented the format is responsible for how these movies are looking. Nope. It's the studios making them who are deciding that. BTW, to all who are so convinced that 30 GB is all we'll ever need for our 2-hour movies. Remember that people said the same thing about DVD back in 1997... only then the argument was that single-layer DVDs were "good enough" for all of our needs except for the occasionally really-long film to avoid splitting the movie over 2 discs. Hmmm. Curious how nowdays almost every DVD released is dual-layer regardless. Looks like over time the studios found ways to make use of dual-layer DVD that enthusiasts didn't understand or think necessary back in 1997. Let's not make the same short-sighted mistake again by suggesting that 30 GB HD media is "good enough" for the next 10 years of our new HD era.
Blu-ray would go the way of the dodo bird if studio support was format neutral. Massive studio support is the only thing keeping Blu-ray in the game. Because most if not all of Blu-ray's stated superiority is theoritical at this point. I have seen nothing to prove they are superior in real work HT experience. Moreover, I am reminded by reading another forum that the same studios supporting blu-ray are the same ones that tried to force DIVX down our thoats. So if the make HD DVD disappear I'm sure we'll see some form of DIVX implemented with the blu-ray systems. BTW "They" means HD DVD and Blu-ray as different formats.
Blu-ray and HD DVD formats aren't responsible in any way for the film transfers that get put on them. "They" can't up the ante with better transfers because the format's aren't making any choices. *STUDIOS* make transfers and produce discs. And the studios that are producing both formats are producing discs on both sides of the format-fence that are identical. The only party that needed to learn a lesson or two was Sony in that their own film transfers were pretty lame on early BD titles. They seem to have learned their lesson... thanks to Warner Brothers high-quality HD DVD *and* Blu-ray discs shaming them into getting their act together (on that we both agree I think). Sony will even be releasing it's first BD titles using advanced-video codecs (AVC/MPEG4) which is a good sign that their love-affair with MPEG2 isn't going to hamper their releases forever.
People forget that Sony was one the first studios to release movies in the AVC codec for consumers in the mass market. They have been releasing AVC UMD movies for the PSP for over 2 years now. I think that when they said they felt MP2 was a better choice at the time, that they meant it and had no clue how much antipathy they would receive because of this choice. I always got the impression that the quality of the masters used was limiting the video quality far more then the codec used.
quite so. though that doesn't imply anything better about the film studio with the most invovlement in the BD format! Sony has been producing HD transfers longer than any other studio, and chances are their original goal was to utilize that library of now-exsisting legacy HD transfers for BD. Sadly for them but thankfully for us, I think they've become aware of how inferior some of those older HD transfers really are given the results from state-of-the-art technology available today...and that the HT community is not about to accept a mediocre-looking HD product.