Toshiba SD4960? (1 Viewer)

[Ron T]

It also converts DSD to PCM making it next to useless. The 4960 is an ergonomic nightmare but with true DSD and Burr Browns it blows the cheap Pioneers away for sound quality. The cheap Pioneers sound like total crap. Harsh highs, no soundstage and flabby bass. Garbage.

 

[Greg Bright]

Quote:
It also converts DSD to PCM making it next to useless. The 4960 is an ergonomic nightmare but with true DSD and Burr Browns it blows the cheap Pioneers away for sound quality. The cheap Pioneers sound like total crap. Harsh highs, no soundstage and flabby bass. Garbage.


Ron, are you suggesting that I put both DVD players in my system to compensate for the Pioneer's unsubstantiated inadequacies? I have not heard the effects you claim for the Pioneer, and my system is top-shelf mid-fi. Garbage is a rather harsh word for a component that was at least designed properly, where all functions work as advertised, and that is stylistically and functionally superior to the Toshiba. I guess my ears have really deteriorated over the last 40 years of serious listening. Probably those AR4as and that cheap Harman Kardon amp back in 1966 that started my slide to oblivion.

 

[Ron T]

Functionality is fine on the Tosh but not a priority for most in an audio component.The fact the Tosh has much better DACS and doesn't convert DSD to PCM makes all the difference in the world. Ypu're not truly hearing SACD the way you should be from the cheap Pioneers. The fact it converts DSD to PCM is in fact verified and proven. Nothing unsubstantiated at all.

 

[LanceJ]

Could you expand on this Ron?

Also, I've extensively listened to the Pioneer's predessor, the DV-563, through a Harmon AVR630/Polk Audio RTi system and personally wouldn't classify its sound as "garbage".

 

[Greg Bright]

The 588's manual speaks of downconversion to PCM but only when being played in a 2-channel mode. OTOH no mention of DSD is made anywhere in the manual. Not once.

 

[Ron T]

Greg it converts ALL DSD to PCM. You don't seem to know what DSD is however.

 

[Greg Bright]

Any idea at what sampling rate? Since the term DSD is never mentioned in the manual I am guessing that Pioneer doesn't really want to advertise this particular inadequacy. I just can't figure out why they would convert DSD to PCM before sending the signal to the DACs.

 

[Ron T]

Many cheaper players do this. Is it audible? Yes of course as it's one more downconversion it is not the pure DSD (SACD) data.

 

[Greg Bright]

In other words, the only change/improvement in sound by playing an SACD in the 588 versus playing it in a standard CD player is the multi-channel capability. No extended frequency response, S/N ratio, etc. Correct?

 

[Ron T]

No not exactly. You are getting the benefits of a higher sampling frequency and higher bitrate but it's been converted from pure DSD to PCM data. The 4960 keeps it pure DSD.

 

[Paul.S]

The (de)merits of DSD-to-PCM conversion were vetted pretty throughly in the 563A review thread. It's my understanding that the conversion is done as a cost control measure (enabling a universal player to have one set of DACs instead if two, despite the fact that these chip sets are fairly inexpensive).

It's still high bitrate PCM, Greg. I think it's an overstatement to say that the 588 is "useless" due to DSD-to-PCM conversion. Especially given the ergonomic issues you have with the Tosh, I think it is just another issue to be considered in the vexed decision of what 'budget' universal to buy. I think the issue may be of greater importance to someone who prizes sine qua non SA-CD s.q. But I'd then question why such a person would be interested in budget unis instead of the many more expensive unis out there (from Denon, for instance) for which such conversion is not an issue.

-p

 

[LanceJ]

Greg: check your private messages.

 

[Greg Bright]

Paul,

Your comments are appreciated. The Tosh has been relegated to the audio/computer room (OK, there's a 13 in. Sony there for the grandkids) for occasional use. I have found the 588 to be well-designed, esp. compared to the Tosh. It sounds good (no flabby bass that I can hear), has a fine remote, and an inevitability to its interface that I enjoy. I have lusted after the higher-end players, but the budget speaks first. And I have always felt that the biggest chunk should go to speakers. Now the projector gets highest dollar; but I have tried to always choose my electronics based on build-quality, ergonomics, appearance, and value, not necessarily in that order.

I like the Pioneer 588. I enjoy the sounds it produces in my system. After all I bought it for the DVD-A and SACD. Whether I can hear improvements in two-channel sound over CDs...I hope so.