Toshiba,Pioneer and HDCP (1 Viewer)

[Steve_Howard]

OK, before anyone says it. I know the source of this information is dubious at best, but that is why I am posting. I was in Best Buy over the weekend and just happened to engage in a converstation with the supervisor of the TV department. I mentioned that I had great reservations in investing in a big dollar HDTV when the copy protection scheme was looming on the horizon. To my shock, the gentleman nodded his head and said that he just came from a training class this past week where he was informed that the Pioneer and Toshiba models now have the ability to upgrade ala Mitsubishi. It has not been announced, but the capability is there. I was floored that he even knew what I was talking about! Can anyone confirm this?
Steve
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[Jim Benard]

If this is true, the upgrade ought to be FREE. It's not my fault that they want to add copy protection AFTER the fact and we already own their sets. Don't take away what I already pay to subscribe to or watch OTA.

 

[Todd Hochard]

The Pioneer Elites have always had this capability. Now, whether it will be used or not...
The source of information is dubious, indeed. Best Buy is well-known for trying to sell DVD player warranties, and promising that those "warranties" will cover the change of a player from interlaced to progressive. I've personally heard this crap, and I've spoken with others in my travels who have as well.
IMO, if these sets had the capability, the manufacturers would be trumpeting this. Current HD-ready sets aren't exactly flying out the doors, partly because of this copy-protection bullshit.
I wouldn't mind paying a nominal fee for an upgrade (

 

[Thomas Newton]

Current HD-ready sets aren't exactly flying out the doors, partly because of this copy-protection bullshit.

If they add the copy protection, the sets won't exactly be flying out of the door into my home. But I suppose it may take a DIVX-style fiasco to rid us of this curse.

 

[Frank]

The new HDCP enabled DVI downgrade option will require a whole new display. It will not work with your current HDTV set. This new downgrade requires that there be no analog connection to the display whatsoever. This means that under no circumstances can current HDTVs be downgraded to accept this new copy protection scheme.
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Frank...
Turn off the TV and read these books those in power DON'T want you to read...

 

[Steve Tannehill]

This means that under no circumstances can current HDTVs be downgraded to accept this new copy protection scheme.

Except Mitsubishi, who promises to provide an upgrade to their HD-ready sets which will handle any late developments like this.
- Steve

 

[Steve_Howard]

......which brings us full circle. Is Toshiba, Pioneer and maybe others planning the same thing?
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[Rich Perna]

The Pioneer Elites are easily upgradeable, ala the HD Tuner 'socket', if nothing else. I haven't actually taken one apart yet, but I have to wonder if the rest of the inputs simply rest on board(s) that can be swapped out.
I guess the reason I'm not on fire about this whole thing yet is that you can, today, buy HDTV tuners. Does anyone really think that Dish Network is going to sell a HDTV box that only allows output through this "new" socket? More than likely, it will be optional. That's how I read the press release, anyway.
It's not like VHS vs. Betamax, or DVD vs. Divx. This is not a format war. The MPAA is asking consumers to upgrade for one reason: intellectual property protection. We're not that stupid, and neither are the hardware manufacturers. Our investments are safe, with the possible exception of the HD tuners themselves. BFD.
Rich

 

[Frank]

Steve said:

Except Mitsubishi, who promises to provide an upgrade to their HD-ready sets which will handle any late developments like this.

The HDCP/DVI interface specifically excludes CRTs because they are analog devices. Mitsubishi can not downgrade their CRT based systems to support HDCP/DVI copy protection.
They are supporting the 5C HAVI 1394 interface standard, not the HDCP/DVI that the MPAA insists on.
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Frank...
Turn off the TV and read these books those in power DON'T want you to read...

 

[george king]

Frank,
Now I am confused. Based on what you are saying, everyone will have to buy a DLP, LCD, fLCD, DILA based TV. This would eliminate the market for Direct View TVs, RPTV's and most FPTV's. Do you really think the manufacturers are going to stand by and be required to essentially junk most of their production plants, rehaul their R&D and design centers? I just do not thing that is going to happen.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

There's no need to yell Frank.
A promise is a promise. Mitsubishi promises that their HD-ready sets will not be obsoleted by recent changes in technology.
I expect them to keep that promise.
- Steve

 

[Corey K]

I agree. Companies like Mits do not make haphazard statements and put them in writing. I am fully aware the module included 5C protection. But the point of the whole "promise module" is that the set would not be obsolete. So they will make a module that can decode whatever protection scheme becomes the standard. I am sure they were aware that 5C may not make it to market as the standard. I think at that time it was likely it would be and they were using that as an example. The more important message was not the type of standard but the promise that their sets would not be sent to the scrap heap.
Corey

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Here's the problem I see with Mitsubishi's claim of being able to upgrade their HD-ready TV's: the DVI/HDCP license agreement states you CANNOT have an analog connection that sends 720p, 1080i, or above signals through to the TV (even if it isn't a "pristine" digital signal that the MPAA is fretting over).
Where on the TV can you add a DIGITAL DVI connection, de-encrypt the 5C, HDCP, and whatever other evil little add-on they place in the signal; and keep it in the "digital" domain as you can with DLP, DILA, plasma, and LCD displays and projectors?
It seems to me like you can get an upgrade board for their set top box, but their TV will have to be replaced unless you want to see downgraded analog signals.
This all smells distinctly like the foul odor of DIVX, not some plan to "protect" their copy written material from pirates. It'll get hacked by pros. soon or later. Probably sooner. And the demand for piracted videos will increase, not decrease. However, most of us not rich enough to get these hacks will be dancing to the MPAA's tune.
Dan
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Boycott JVC, 5C, DVI/HDCP, DFAST, and stop the MPAA!! Call Or Write The FCC And Your State and Federal Representatives To Protect Quality HDTV And Other HD Media, And Your Constitutional Rights!

 

[Brian M Kuss]

Just as an FYI, here is a reply I got from Pioneer a couple days ago, after asking them about the ability to somehow "upgrade" my Pro-610 for HDCP/DVI -
"Thanks for contacting Pioneer Electronics.
The Pro-610 has no "Upgrade" or " Modifications" slots like computers do. You have the slot for the Pioneer tuners in the future. So far the information you have listed is not ready yet. Keep you Eyes on the Pioneer Website for updated information from the CES show in Las Vegas.
No new information has been provided to customer service.
Check back in 4 weeks."
Boy, that answers a lot of questions huh?

Brian
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