Toshiba 50H82 Gemetry/Convergence Issues (LONG)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by PeteDavey, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    Hello, I recently purchased a Toshiba 50H82. I have a few questions, I am a newbie to home theater and I'd REALLY appreciate some insight guys [​IMG] .
    1. Since I am a perfectionist, I noticed that geometry was way off out of the box. I immediately found out the service codes to go into the menu to try and fix the geometry. I have been able to get it pretty good on, but there is a rotation problem, and there is no rotation option in the service menu. After doing some research, it seems that rotation can only be done by adjusting the guns themselves with the trim rings. That kind of scares me, after opening the front panel I noticed that there are about 3 rings on the guns, all glued together. Is there anything I can do myself or is this a job for an IFS calibrationist. Also is there a way to reset the service menu settings to default? I've heard of a QA02 reset procedure??
    2. After performing geometry settings, the convergence seems to never stay. I have done the service-menu convergence and it looks good, but after a day of viewing it seems to be off again. Is this because the picture size settings were changed? (I used the test grid pattern on a home theater setup disc, I forget the exact title.)
    3. Focus issues. I own a dish network 6000 receiver which does HDTV via component outputs. I have this receiver connected to the TV via HD components. If I view a HDTV signal, the picture seems very crisp and clear, but when I view standard channels, including PPV, it looks blurry. Is this just because the resolution is higher on the TV, or is there a setting to tweak.
    4. I've read around that the designer menu has been disabled by Toshiba, if this is true, does this mean theres no way to disable SVM besides cutting wires?
    5. One more question. I've hooked up a DVD player that had progressive outputs to my TV. The tv has 4 modes available using component inputs:
    0. Natural
    1. Theater-wide 1
    2. Theater-wide 2
    3. Theater-wide 3
    I know to get a DVD to look as its supposed to, I should use the Natural option, but when I do so, it puts grey-bars on the left and right side, making the image 4:3, instead of 16:9. Why is this? (Sony DVD player). I went through the menus of the DVD player and set it for 16:9 TV, no difference. Yes, the DVD was a wide-screen DVD (the matrix). I can use the 3. Theater-wide 3 option and it looks OK, but is this the way it's supposed to operate? By the way if I use my HDTV Satellite receiver on Natural mode on an HDTV channel, it fills the whole screen as it is supposed to. No the DVD player is not progressive scan.
    Thanks guys this means a lot to me if you can get back to me on any of these issues. I know the H82 is a newer model and not too many people have had their hands on one, but it's quite a gem for the $.
    -Pete
     
  2. John Cavacas

    John Cavacas Agent

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    Pete, I can't anwser all your questions, but i'll fill in what I can.

    1. I think there are service menu codes which let you do rotation, I however do not know what these are.
    General rule of thum is that you shouldn't do a 56pt convergence until after 100 hours of use. Doing it sooner then that is ok, but then the problem you are having of convergence drifting happens quite often. As for reseting, i've read more bad then good about this service menu code, i would be VERY carefull about using it.

    2. read above

    3. That is most likelly due to the source. Cable/satelite signals just don't have enough resolution to make the images look good. If you do a search on this forum you'll find similar complaints.

    4. I'm pretty sure there is no need to cut wires, the procedure seems to involve disconnecting a few wires. I havent done it myself.

    5. To watch Anamorphic widescreen DVDs set the TV to Full mode. Natural mode should be used for HDTV or to watch 4:3 material in its original aspect ratio (with the gray side bars) There seems to be either a mistake or confusion about the toshibas manual in that regards. There are a lot of people asking the same exact question as you.

    Most people find that 4:3 material is best watched in the TW1 mode, and it is the mode I watch on. TW2 is great for non-anormophic DVDs.

    Best of luck with your TV.

    John
     
  3. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion. One thing though, when using the component inputs, it disables the "full" mode. (I guess to prevent over-stretching of 16:9 material?) I might get this set IFS calibrated, since I hear so many praises about it.

    Anyone else got any input on this particular tv?
     
  4. errol

    errol Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Pete,

    Whenever the tv is fed an HD signal, it goes into Full Mode (disables PIC Size).

    Thanks,
    Errol
     
  5. Les Holt

    Les Holt Agent

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    In the 82 series, you should be able to disable SVM in the user menu (at least in the HDX).

    If not, then start your settings in the "Movie" mode, which does disable SVM. Then make all your adjustments in that mode, and save it. SVM will stay off.

    With my Hitachi, the user menu includes an option to turn SVM on or off. Comparing the two, I've found that with poor quality sources (like cable), it helps to have SVM on because it improves apparent pictures resolution. With better quality sources (like good DVD's or HD), it's better to have SVM off because the sharpness is already inherent in the source and SVM reduces 3-D effect.

    Les
     
  6. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    Interesting Errol, because when I use an HD signal, "full" mode is greyed out (can not select it).

    Les: If you make any changes and save them, it automatically moves to preference instead of "movie". I'm not sure if it retains the SVM setting or not.
     
  7. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Sounds like you are really determined to void your warranty. So be it.

    There are no usable service menu defaults. All TV's come from the factory with individualized settings ...

    Blindly plugging in numbers has a potential of doing damage to your TV. If you choose to go this route, do not expect Toshiba to foot the bill for your folly.

    Service manual values are there in case of catastrophic failure of the TV image. Unless your set has suffered such a condition ... stay away.

    The QA02 reset may reset more than you think and in some cases will fry certain areas of the TV. Proceed at own risk.

    Regards
     
  8. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    Well before you jump to conclusions, i've only entered the service menu to adjust geometry settings, and of course i've written down the defaults. I do understand the risk of the QA02 reset and am not going to perform it.
     
  9. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    The main question is, is for picture rotation and color convergence. There is no way to rotate the picture with any setting, it looks as if it must be done physically, which I don't have the guts to do. The convergence doesn't seem to stay put and I wanted to know if this would have anything to do with adjusting the geometry settings (picture location). Thanks.
     
  10. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    HI Pete, there is no rotation setting in the service menu. And you cant do it practically by rotating the guns. However, you can "rotate" the picture by doing appropriate adjusts in the convergence menu.

    Regards
    Gregg
     
  11. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Don't mean to sound like a bad guy, but when people start asking some questions like these ... it usually means they have not noticed all the other warnings tied to this stuff.

    As for Focus ...

    The non HD material may indeed look worse in the 1080i mode because you are forcing one additional digital image processing step into an already average image. The receiver introduces upconversion artifacts to the image when you make it go from 480i to 1080i.

    Non HD material should be watched via the S-video output of the TV. You may regain a small measure of focus going that route.

    Similar discussion for 4:3 material on 16:9 TV's. 4:3 material looks better on 4:3 TV's ... not 16:9 sets.

    Regards
     
  12. Les Holt

    Les Holt Agent

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    Pete wrote:

    >>Les: If you make any changes and save them, it automatically moves to preference instead of "movie". I'm not sure if it retains the SVM setting or not.


    Trust me, it does. You can use Avia or VE to check it.
     
  13. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    If I had the first response to your initial message, it would have started with:
    "PLEASE BACK AWAY FROM THE TV!"
    You just sound way too eager to stick your fingers into the set and do crazy things like rotating the guns and doing QA02 resets! That's all the lecturing I'm going to do though [​IMG]
    When inputting a 1080i signal, the 'Natural' mode is essentially equivalent to 'Full' mode so that's why Full is greyed out.
    To correct the picture 'rotation', you basically have to straighten all the lines in the service convergence system. This would take an experienced individual 60-90 minutes. It's not really difficult work, just time consuming (and boring as hell!). Your best bet is to use a screen overlay. I've done up the necessary file and it's available for download here:
    http://www.nbtelectronics.com/files/...y_overlays.htm
     
  14. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    Very interesting.. I've heard this a few times with the convergence grid. Now you mean using option 7 in the service menu, correct? So move the RGB lines all down at the same time... Wow, that would take a while. Thats interesting though, because bringing up the convergence grid it doesn't let you converge EVERY single box (very top left/right, etc), so how is that going to work? I guess i'll have to set some time and just give it a try.

    Thanks again guys for all your great responses!

    Pete
     
  15. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    You've got the idea. The real pain here is that Toshiba doesn't let you move all 3 colours at once, so you do a full alignment on green first, then red, then blue. Then remove the overlay and fine tune red to green (makes yellow) and then blue to red (makes magenta). On the H81 sets you'd then try saving it to Touch Focus, but it would mess it up a bit, so you'd have to fix it again, save it to Touch Focus again, fix it up a bit more and then, finally, on the 3rd try it would be just about right. The good news is that on the 82's, the first time's a charm!
     
  16. PeteDavey

    PeteDavey Auditioning

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    Great guys, your helps been awesome. I've succesfully done my own geometry!
     
  17. JoelW

    JoelW Stunt Coordinator

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    My parents just bought a new 57H82 for Christmas. However, I couldn't get into the service menu. I tried the same steps as my H81 (mute, mute, mute and press button on front of TV) but it didn't work.

    Can someone fill me in on the steps to get into the service menu on the new H82s?

    Also, any word on where I could find the service menu for the H82s?

    Thanks.
     
  18. jeff_coil

    jeff_coil Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks John the Toshiba manual does lead you to believe that natural mode should be used for "wide screen" formats which for most people in my opinion would think is a wide screen DVD. Actually I just created a new post before I stumbled on your reply! By the way the 57hdx82 is pretty awesome!
     

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