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John Dirk

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Unfortunately, I’m in a position where I need one sooner rather than later and the state of things is making it really hard.

I’ve upgraded to a 4K projector and I’m going to be buying new speakers soon as I make the move to Atmos. I may end up going with a Denon despite not being a huge fan of their sound because they are a reliably good value with the features I want. I am tempted by the NAD 778 and the Anthems though.
In your situation [without knowing anything about your room or overall setup] I might just opt for a relatively cheap unit from one of the big box stores that checks the necessary boxes feature-wise with the long term goal of replacing it with something further up the food chain in a year or two.

Here's a contender if you're a Costco member. As stated above I normally wouldn't be recommending Onkyo right now but in your situation it might make sense.
 

DavidJ

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That’s not a bad idea, John. Thank you for the recommendation. I’ll definitely consider it.

It seems like it is a good time to be patient, but I’m finding that quite difficult. :)
 

DaveF

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@John Dirk The Monoprice is more expensive then Anthem (which hurts my head given Monoprice formerly being about massively undercutting prices on commodity tech). Is Dirac better than ARC? Seems like Anthem is a better value.

I’m confused by Emotiva only doing one subwoofer channel (9.1.6) Everything else does at least two subs. Unless I misunderstand, it’s a non-option.

Anthem (and Marantz) are an easier option for me because they have RCA outputs for Subwoofers. With my new SVS subs, I don’t have balanced output cables run to them, so can’t use that. Appears Mono and Emo only have balanced outputs for speakers.
 

JohnRice

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@John Dirk The Monoprice is more expensive then Anthem (which hurts my head given Monoprice formerly being about massively undercutting prices on commodity tech). Is Dirac better than ARC? Seems like Anthem is a better value.

I’m confused by Emotiva only doing one subwoofer channel (9.1.6) Everything else does at least two subs. Unless I misunderstand, it’s a non-option.

Anthem (and Marantz) are an easier option for me because they have RCA outputs for Subwoofers. With my new SVS subs, I don’t have balanced output cables run to them, so can’t use that. Appears Mono and Emo only have balanced outputs for speakers.
I completely agree with you on Monoprice. They are similar to Outlaw in that respect, in that they just license units. Still, Emotiva has never made me very comfortable with their surround preamps.

The Emotiva can actually do stereo subs, at the cost of two of the height channels. It's unlikely you'll ever need 6 overhead channels, so it's no big deal. Also, you can just split the regular sub output, which is what I do. Then I use the controls of the sub (for example, I believe someone has a new pair of SB-3000s with extensive controls) to make adjustments to the individual subs. I can explain that more, if you want, but it's actually quite logical since the needed controls are all duplicated in both units. Using auto room correction is a little less clean.

As far as cables for the Emotiva, you can get XLR to RCA cables pretty cheaply from Monoprice and others.
 
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JohnRice

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Unfortunately, I’m in a position where I need one sooner rather than later and the state of things is making it really hard.

I’ve upgraded to a 4K projector and I’m going to be buying new speakers soon as I make the move to Atmos. I may end up going with a Denon despite not being a huge fan of their sound because they are a reliably good value with the features I want. I am tempted by the NAD 778 and the Anthems though.
One deal I know of these days is the Marantz SR7013 on closeout at ListenUp in Colorado. They're a reputable dealer who's been around for decades. $600 off for a new unit might suit your purposes if it's in your price range, which it sounds like it definitely is.
 

John Dirk

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The Monoprice is more expensive then Anthem (which hurts my head given Monoprice formerly being about massively undercutting prices on commodity tech). Is Dirac better than ARC? Seems like Anthem is a better value.
I haven't personally used either but, on paper anyway, Dirac is the clear winner as it offers discrete bass management [volume, phase and distance] for up to 5 subs. The Bass Management portion of Dirac Live requires a separate license but it's included with the HTP-1 at no additional cost.

Also included is Auro 3D, [if that matters to anyone] Roon compatibility and a 16-band PEQ per channel! If that weren't enough, the HTP-1 is also a fully differential design. I don't know that the Anthem AVM 70 isn't but its laughably sparse published specs don't say it is so I'm thinking that might have been reserved for the AVM 90. In other words, yes, the Monoprice HTP-1 is more expensive than the Anthem AVM70 but is actually more comparable to the Anthem AVM90 which costs $6999.00. Sadly, I think I might still be too uncomfortable with the outsourced dev work to buy it, even though I've heard it was built by ATI.

EDIT: I may have misspoken about the bass management module being included. It's definitely available but may incur an additional fee.
 
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DaveF

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I haven't personally used either but, on paper anyway, Dirac is the clear winner as it offers discrete bass management [volume, phase and distance] for up to 5 subs. The Bass Management portion of Dirac Live requires a separate license but it's included with the HTP-1 at no additional cost.

Also included is Auro 3D, [if that matters to anyone] Roon compatibility and a 16-band PEQ per channel! If that weren't enough, the HTP-1 is also a fully differential design. I don't know that the Anthem AVM 70 isn't but its laughably sparse published specs don't say it is so I'm thinking that might have been reserved for the AVM 90. In other words, yes, the Monoprice HTP-1 is more expensive than the Anthem AVM70 but is actually more comparable to the Anthem AVM90 which costs $6999.00. Sadly, I think I might still be too uncomfortable with the outsourced dev work to buy it, even though I've heard it was built by ATI.

EDIT: I may have misspoken about the bass management module being included. It's definitely available but may incur an additional fee.
Dirac bass module is a paid upgrade per the S&V review linked from the product page.

Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 Surround Sound Processor Review | Sound & Vision
optional Dirac Live Bass Control functionality offered as a paid upgrade ($349 for a single sub, $499 for multiple subs).
 

John Dirk

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Dirac bass module is a paid upgrade per the S&V review linked from the product page.

Monoprice Monolith HTP-1 Surround Sound Processor Review | Sound & Vision
Yes that was my mistake but this unit still appears to be a great bargain compared to the Anthem AVM90, which I still believe to be it's most direct competitor.
 

John Dirk

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This is the most comprehensive comparo I've seen. This guy makes Ben Stein seem exciting but don't let that dissuade you as he really knows his stuff and focuses on content over style.

 

DaveF

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Now that there are three great HDMI 2.1 devices on the market nobody should settle for a receiver that doesn't support this standard in ALL ports.
Does this matter if you’re not a video gamer?

I need a living room AVR (budget-ish, in the $500 to $800 range) that’s used for Netflix, TiVo and Nintendo Switch.

I will also need a PrePro for projector / theater that’s might be used for video gaming, but caveat projector.

If HDMI 2.1 matters for casual viewing and projector 4K, I can factor that in to my buying plans. But if it’s solely a 8K and direct-view videogamer feature (VRR on top-tier OLED), then I can not worry about.
 

JohnRice

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Does this matter if you’re not a video gamer?

I need a living room AVR (budget-ish, in the $500 to $800 range) that’s used for Netflix, TiVo and Nintendo Switch.

I will also need a PrePro for projector / theater that’s might be used for video gaming, but caveat projector.

If HDMI 2.1 matters for casual viewing and projector 4K, I can factor that in to my buying plans. But if it’s solely a 8K and direct-view videogamer feature (VRR on top-tier OLED), then I can not worry about.
I don't think it does, one... little... bit. With all respect to Sam, I think he forgets that not everyone is into high-end gaming. I'm one of those who has positively zero interest in it. Therefore, I am aware of absolutely no reason it's beneficial for me. The very concept of 8K for home use is completely absurd. It seems like overkill to prepare for the extremely rare high frame rate movie that might appear, which would also require significant additional investment to see properly. It's just a big stinking non-issue as far as I can see.
 
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Josh Steinberg

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It’s just a niche within a niche. I know sometimes Sam will give me a good natured tease over the 3D capability I so enjoy not being widely supported anymore and it’s probably gonna be the same for him and high end gaming - the number of people who game with that advanced capability and who want to run it through a receiver instead of plugging directly into a TV or monitor is probably pretty low compared to those who just plug a PS4 into their TV or AVR and call it a day.
 

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So which receivers properly support high frame rate passthrough for the PS5, XBOX series X and PCs? I'm eventually going to get a PS5 and I want to eliminate the use of ARC and eARC if I can. The feature is just too unreliable. I could only get sound to work with my 1060 and GX OLED by hooking up my old Samsung 8500 UHD player to the receiver.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I think most will - the specific issue that troubles Sam is that most consumer grade receivers generally only have one input that supports HDMI 2.1, while the rest support HDMI 2.0. Most people aren’t using multiple high end devices simultaneously so it’s often not an issue for the general public. So if you get a PS5, shouldn’t be a problem. If you had a PS5, XboxX and gaming PC, used them all at 8K with high frame rate and HDR and surround audio and wanted them all hooked up at the same time without swapping them when you want to use them, then you’d have the issue.
 

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The HDMI specs and device support is confusion. Some recent mid/high end 4K projectors have not supported full 18MHz (is it GHz?) HDMI connection, which limits high frame rate and/or color depth options. I struggle and fail to keep up with these nuances, and it's unclear if or how much it matters for a given user.

Certainly, it's ideal to buy all devices that fully support all current specs and specs that are likely relevant in the next few years. But with the 4K standards, this seems unpossible.
 

JohnRice

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The HDMI specs and device support is confusion. Some recent mid/high end 4K projectors have not supported full 18MHz (is it GHz?) HDMI connection, which limits high frame rate and/or color depth options. I struggle and fail to keep up with these nuances, and it's unclear if or how much it matters for a given user.

Certainly, it's ideal to buy all devices that fully support all current specs and specs that are likely relevant in the next few years. But with the 4K standards, this seems unpossible.
Dave, I think you're needlessly working yourself into a frenzy. First, it's 18Gb/s for full 4K regular frame rate with HDR. Second, full compatibility with, once again, 4K regular frame rate with HDR is extremely easy. This is for anything other than high end gaming. In fact, most if not all receivers and preamps made in the last 2-3 years are fully compatible. For example, my Marantz AV7703 is. It came out about four years ago.

Again, unless you're doing high-end gaming, have some delusion that 8K is even sensible, or have some dream of high frame rate movies, you positively do NOT need hdmi 2.1.
 

DaveF

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Dave, I think you're needlessly working yourself into a frenzy. First, it's 18Gb/s for full 4K regular frame rate with HDR. Second, full compatibility with, once again, 4K regular frame rate with HDR is extremely easy. This is for anything other than high end gaming. In fact, most if not all receivers and preamps made in the last 2-3 years are fully compatible. For example, my Marantz AV7703 is. It came out about four years ago.

Again, unless you're doing high-end gaming, have some delusion that 8K is even sensible, or have some dream of high frame rate movies, you positively do NOT need hdmi 2.1.
People have been discussing the limitations of 12Gb/s HDMI ports on 4K projectors the past few years and its effect on full 4K HDR support. Not an AVR / pre-pro issue. It may be the latest 4K projectors fully support this. As I said, I've read about it. It's another example of the confusing nature of HDMI support in current home theater gear.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Like I'd been saying, people can always try the used market for an Anthem AVM-60 at roughly 1/2 the price of a new AVM-70 and not miss much, if anything at all, IMHO... ;)

From what's been mentioned here, some might possibly miss the duo/stereo/separately configurable sub outputs of the AVM-70, but if you're going w/ SVS subs, sounds like that's essentially a non-issue -- well, @Dave Upton apparently worked around that for his setup w/ the AVM-60 anyway.

Also, since the AVM-60 was supposed to be fully differential (though not for analog inputs if that's important to you), I doubt the modestly more expensive AVM-70 suddenly lost that...

OK, I suppose some might want the probably better/wider audio streaming support of the new Anthem gear, so there's that. But if you don't care about Roon, AirPlay2, et al and are happy enough w/ DTS PlayFi (or not streaming audio at all), then that shouldn't matter...

People have been discussing the limitations of 12Gb/s HDMI ports on 4K projectors the past few years and its effect on full 4K HDR support. Not an AVR / pre-pro issue. It may be the latest 4K projectors fully support this. As I said, I've read about it. It's another example of the confusing nature of HDMI support in current home theater gear.

Probably not an issue for 4K PJs released in the last year or two that you'd wanna consider at all. For instance, should not be an issue w/ the recent line of Epson (faux-)4K PJs (at least the better ones) -- I have the 5050UB, but pretty sure it's not an issue w/ at least the next couple lower models. IF you actually want wireless HDMI, that's a completely different story -- AFAIK, that's no-can-do w/ what's currently available for any PJs.

_Man_
 

JohnRice

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From what's been mentioned here, some might possibly miss the duo/stereo/separately configurable sub outputs of the AVM-70, but if you're going w/ SVS subs, sounds like that's essentially a non-issue -- well, @Dave Upton apparently worked around that for his setup w/ the AVM-60 anyway.


_Man_
Dave uses a MiniDSP, which pretty much eliminates the need for dual sub outputs.

I use a single output for other reasons I don't need to pollute this thread with, but the controls on the SVS subs make them a little more flexible for this approach. Not the panacea a MiniDSP is, but pretty good. I should note, that approach eliminates the ability of auto correction to adjust subs individually, which could be a major downer for a lot of people. I'm doing that manually with REW.
 

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