Top and bottom bars different sizes in progressive mode..? (JVC FA900)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Greg Robinson, Nov 17, 2002.

  1. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been playing with JVC's 7-disc progressive-scan DVD player (FA900) and everything I throw at it has played fine. Until yesterday. I popped in the new extended version of LOTR and the upper "black bar" was almost nonexistant, whereas the lower black bar was twice its normal size. (viewing via projector and 92" screen) I popped the disc into my interlaced-only Sony player and it played fine. I then went back to the JVC and switched it to interlaced output and presto, the bars were back to normal. I have watched numerous 2.35 ratio discs in progressive mode on the JVC including Fifth Element, Mask of Zorro, The Matrix and most recently Attack of the Clones and ALL of them have played OK in progressive mode. Is LOTR in some way flagged differently or has anyone else run across something similar? Thanks.

    p.s. - sorry if this belongs in A/V Sources - I wasn't sure where to post it.
     
  2. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    It's not a progressive scan issue; I've played the EE on a Panasonic p/s player, and the image is centered. I suspect it has something to do with your JVC player. Moving this to A/V sources . . .

    M.
     
  3. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    I agree that this is a player issue, but it's one I haven't encountered before. If anyone else has seen this with other player/title combinations, please let me know. Thanks!
     
  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Strange. So it only does this on the LOTR disc, eh?

    Anybody have a clue?
     
  5. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes, only with LOTR so far. I'm going to try a bunch of other titles just to test that premise though. Since I have not seen any other threads mentioning this, I'm guessing this is a very localized problem. If it was an issue with Serial Mom or Superman IV I wouldn't mind so much, but Lord of the Rings?! Come on!! [​IMG]
     
  6. Andrew_Sch

    Andrew_Sch Cinematographer

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    I don't have an equipment list handy, although I know it's not the same player, but I've had this happen with only one disc, BV's "The Insider."
     
  7. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks Andrew. I'll see if I can borrow or rent that one and see what happens.
     
  8. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    An update here and another cry for help. [​IMG] Well, I have exchanged my LOTR set and the new set has the same effect... when in progressive mode, the image is shifted significantly higher on my Plus Piano projector. Switch to interlaced and it's back in the center. It was doing this on the afore mentioned JVC and it is also doing it on my new Panasonic RP91. It's not the discs since I've now tested two sets, and it's not the DVD player, since both the JVC and Panny exhibit the effect. Can anyone think of anything else that might be causing this effect? The 2-disc version of LOTR plays just fine in both progressive and interlaced. Just the 4-disc set is screwed up! Any suggestions? Thanks.
     
  9. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Am I correct that you're getting the entire image and it's undistorted, but it's just off-center? If so, I'd just watch the film and not worry about it. Seriously.

    M.
     
  10. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    It's not just a matter of being an inch off one way or another - the upper bar is 50-75% smaller than it normally is. My problem is not with enjoying the image, but rather with masking. I'm just finishing up my first basement home theater and one thing I'd like to implement is a DIY masking system. Typcially you can say that "a 2.35 film will need from here to here" and "4:3 programming will fit from here to here" - this LOTR issue could be a real pain if LOTR is not the only guilty disc. It would mean my semi-fixed masking areas would not be usable. Not a HUGE deal no. But perplexing nonetheless.
     
  11. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Here's a thought.
    Maybe it has something to do w/ the automatic aspect ratio control of both the JVC and Panny RP91 when playing certain discs authored a certain way, especially when the authoring uses some trick technique involving DVD's multi-angle or subtitling capability.
    I don't have either player--still shopping for one--but I have heard of people actually wanting (or was it complaining?) the ability to shift the entire widescreen image up a tad for subtitles to show correctly in the lower black bar on some movies. I don't remember all the details though, but I do recall that these discussions were related to players that can do scaling/aspect ratio control.
    I'm suggesting this line of thinking because BV DVDs are known for using authoring tricks to encode foreign language versions of opening/closing credits and The Insider is one of them, IIRC. And maybe LOTR:EE also does something similar for other reasons since it doesn't have foreign language tracks--maybe something w/ a commentary track(?). For a test, maybe you can try all your BV DVDs that come w/ foreign language tracks to see if you get similar results.
    OK, I just went and checked out the review on www.thedigitalbits.com, and LOTR:EE does show subtitles on the top black bar when viewing w/ commentary tracks to point out who's speaking. Maybe this trick(?) is causing the problem for those 2 players since under normal viewing the player won't show anything in the top black bar. For a test, try watching LOTR:EE w/ a commentary track on and see if the picture won't fix itself. If it does, then that's probably it. Even if it doesn't, that could still be it, but worse although neither case helps you any.
    Hmmm... I guess that's one issue I might have to anticipate since I want to get a player w/ scaling capability...
    _Man_
     
  12. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Man - that makes a lot of sense. I'm off to the folks for the holidays but I'll be sure to do some testing with my BV discs when I return. Happy holidays everyone, and keep those suggestions coming! [​IMG]
     
  13. Craig S

    Craig S Producer
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    I just brought home a JVC FA900 today, and noticed the same thing when I popped FotR:EE into the player, although the vertical offset didn't seem quite as drastic to me as Greg described it. I tried playing one of the commentaries as Man-Fai suggested, and the picture was still offset the same amount (luckily the captions identifying the speakers were still fully visible at the top of the screen).
     
  14. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks Craig - interesting. i'll report back if i come up with anything else on this matter...
     
  15. Craig S

    Craig S Producer
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    Greg, I look forward to hearing what you find out.

    On a completely different topic - how quiet is your 900BK when playing discs?? I have found that when certain discs are playing a bit of a rattling noise comes from the unit. This seems to be mainly on DVD-A & MP3 discs. Most DVDs I've tried, however, are completely noise-free. I was wondering if this noise is normal or not. I can live with it if it is (I sit over 10 feet from the player), but if it's not I'd like to exchange the unit ASAP. I'm curious what your experience is.
     
  16. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    hi Craig,

    I only had the 900 for a few weeks; I was reviewing it for DVD ETC. Magazine. (Review should be hitting newsstands next week). I noticed a minor tray vibration once during my time with it (while playing a standard DVVD video), but it went away quickly. I didn't mention it in the review, chalking it up to a poorly pressed disc since all other discs seemed ok. My GUESS is that this is normal for the unit, but it couldn't hurt to exchange it and try your luck with a new one. Good luck!
     
  17. Greg Robinson

    Greg Robinson Stunt Coordinator

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    Just throwing this back under the spotlight to see if anyone else out there can help. LOTR is still acting up with the rp91/Piano combination. I spoke with PLUS and it was the first they'd heard of it, but the product manager was going to attempt to duplicate my setup and see what happens with his LOTR disc.
    So no one else out there has a Piano, a progressive DVD player and LOTR? [​IMG]
     
  18. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Greg,

    I thought Craig already responded about this w/ his JVC player. He didn't mention the Piano projector though.

    Maybe you should search and/or post to the HT Software forum to see if others had the same problem.

    _Man_
     

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