Too Much or just Bad Bass ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Greg Lee, Dec 25, 2001.

  1. Greg Lee

    Greg Lee Agent

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2001
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've had my new system for about 2 weeks now and am really having a problem with the bass 'sound' for music listening. System consists of:

    Onkyo TS-DX696 reciever

    Sony DVP-NC600 DVD player (relatively low end - $230)

    HTD Level III 5.1 speaker system (not towers)

    This is in a large room (20x25) with vaulted ceiling slanting from 8 to 16 feet high in the 25' direction.

    I've been listening to music in Stereo mode, from seating location near middle of room. I have all speakers set to small (claimed response for the mains & surrounds is 43-20k, 30-250 for the 12" sub) and the sub XO set to its highest setting.

    My complaint is the bass just sounds way too 'much'. I guess that boomy or muddy would describe it. Maybe I've been bass-deprived until now and this is how things should sound, but I just don't like it much. For what its worth, my musical tastes run to rock and blues, and I do like it LOUD.

    I have the Avia DVD and have used it to the best of my ability in conjunction with a RS digital SPL meter to calibrate the levels. I've been reading this and other HT forums like crazy and I'm starting to understand some of the discussion. With respect to Avia,I've performed the subwoofer phase testsr repeatedly, and can hear no difference resulting from changing the sub phase switch from 0 to 180. I've experimented somewhat with moving the sub around (corner, against wall between front speakers, in middle of room under glass end table) and affect is similar in all locations.

    I read a thread with commentary by a guy named Brian Florian and if his comments are relevant, maybe this HTD sub is just not up to par.

    Any advise would be most appreciated !!
     
  2. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 1998
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The room itself can accentuate or diminish certain audio frequencies. Equalizers (as opposed to just one bass and one treble control) are used to help even out the overall frequency response of the sound system as the listener perceives it.
    If switching the phase of the subwoofer doesn't seem to do anything, (1) verify the phase of the other speakers with the subwoofer turned off, (2) perhaps there is a flaw in the subwoofer's driver amp causing its phase to be about 90 degrees off which causes neither the 0 nor the 180 setting to be optimum.
    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  3. Mark Rich

    Mark Rich Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just a thought.You might try a subwoofer cable that uses Teflon as the diectric. It tightens up the bass nicely.
     
  4. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My guess is you're sitting in a room mode peak (since you said halfway) that increases bass (boomy) for the listener.

    I'd try moving your seating a little and measure and listen and then let us know if it changes.

    Also, you should make sure your LFE or bass trim (if this is available on your receiver) is at zero (0) or negative numbers before you start calibrating with AVIA and the SPL meter.

    BruceD
     
  5. Donald Shrum

    Donald Shrum Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    first, turn the freaquency on the sub down, try 60hz. second if you sub is near a wall or a corner, pull it away maybe 10-12" away from a wall or corner. Try that and see if it helps.
     
  6. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    6,610
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Greg,

    First, welcome to the Forum!

    Hate to be the one to tell you this, but you will never get optimal response by moving either your sub or your listening position around the room.

    The problem is, the sub interacts with the room’s boundaries in a detrimental way. Any and all room boundaries 3-15 ft. from the sub will generate cancellation at specific distance-related frequencies between 100 and 22.5Hz, a sub’s critical operating range. The result will be ragged response at best, even if you find a position you can “live with.”

    I suggest putting the sub in a corner, one with the longest uninterrupted wall-length in both directions. This will put any cancellation well above and below the sub’s operating range. In addition, it will yield a 6-9dB increase in gain as sound waves reflect out of the corner in phase with the original signal. And extension and response are improved as three room modes are excited simultaneously.

    Of course, Greg you can still expect a response peak or two, like you have now. The best way to deal with them is with a dedicated parametric equalizer. Get a test disc with 1/6 octave or finer resolution and plot your room’s response with your SPL meter. After you determine where the problems are you can take care of them with the equalizer, and then you have it all: The maximum gain, the lowest extension and the smoothest response. Win, win, win!

    Happy Holidays,

    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  7. Barry BB

    Barry BB Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2001
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What mode are you listening to your music in? Avia will calibrate your sub for DD/DTS/PLII but not for other modes (i.e. stereo, 5 channel, etc.) If you are listening to your music in PLII then this does not apply, otherwise you need to adjust your receiver's sub level for each mode.
     
  8. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 1999
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. David Ruiz

    David Ruiz Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How about setting ALL speakers to LARGE, so that the bass is re-directed to the speakers and NOT the sub...only the deep bass goes to the sub. It will surely help since I had the same problem you did. It will no longer be BOOMY, and the music is very enjoyable, but it will take some getting used to, because most of us are used to bass coming from the SUB, and not the speakers.
     
  10. Greg Lee

    Greg Lee Agent

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2001
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the responses so far. The consensus from this and other similar threads seems to be that room response is the likely culprit, as opposed to a fundamental problem with the HTD subwoofer. With this in mind, it would seem that investing in an EQ would be a better investment than sending the current sub back to HTD (I still have about 2 weeks on the 30-day trial period) and getting an SVS or HSU? Or . . . ?

    Anyone have any recommendations as to a relatively low cost but adequate EQ for my system (Onkyo 686, HTD Level III speakers, 6000 ft^3 room with slanted ceiling) assuming this would be the best approach to maximize the 'musicality' of my system?

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    Greg
     

Share This Page