Too much bass from mains

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Scott MacKay, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. Scott MacKay

    Scott MacKay Extra

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    I am getting too much bass from my mains while playing 2 channel mode. Because of room constraints/entertainment center, I have to use bookshelf mains. Normally this is not a problem because I mostly watch dvds in 5.1. Most of the bass is directed to the sub during movies. While listening to music, I turn the surround off an play in stereo mode. The amount of bass coming from the mains sounds distorted at higher levels. Since I watch alot of movies, I have my receiver set for small L/R mains. Is there someway I can lesson the burden on my mains? My equipment is listed below.

    Mits 55111 RPTV
    Sony 715p DVD player (this is also my cd player)
    JVC 7000V Receiver
    AR 2052 bookshelf mains
    AR 215 center channel
    Cheapo Pioneer rears
    SVS 20-39pc+ sub

    Thanks!!

    Scott
     
  2. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    So your bookshelf mains are putting out too much (Distorted?) bass while listening to music? It sounds alittle confusing. If they are set to small, I'd imagine your sub would be dealing with all the bass? Even in stereo mode, No?

    A couple of questions:

    Do you keep you speakers set to small with the sub = yes all the time (movies & music)?

    Is the sub connected via the LFE connection to the reveiver?

    Have you calibrated the speakers with an SPL meter?

    --Steve
     
  3. Scott MacKay

    Scott MacKay Extra

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    Steve,

    Yes, I do keep the speaker settings to small during either music or movies. Since I use the dvd player as my cd player, I use the same settings on my receiver. The signal to the receiver is relayed through a digital coax cable from dvd player.

    The sub is connected to the LFE output of the receiver via a 12' Monster Cable.

    I have calibrated the system using Avia at 85db for the mains/center/surrounds and the sub is at 88db.

    My problem is when playing music only, the rather smallish bookshelf speakers seem to be working overtime to play the bass at higher levels (which I would think would be routed to the sub). While watching dvds, I have the surround turned on. It seems the mains don't have as much bass going to them. Even during musical passages (on movies), the bass seems balanced and non localized.

    The other day, I was listening to some heavy bass music. I was tweaking sub placement when I noticed the mains were also playing the low heavy bass. They sounded bad. I have my receiver set at 80hz crossover and the SVS crossover turned off. I don't know exactly what frequency it was playing but it was low maybe 40-50hz.

    I am open to any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

    Scott
     
  4. Jose G

    Jose G Supporting Actor

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    Why is the SVS cross turned off? You might want that up to at least or past the 80Hz mark and let the receiver take care of the crossover. If your speakers are distorting, you may need to set a higher crossover on the receiver, also. Does your receiver save the speaker settings for dolby and stereo? Check that out, because you may not need to keep the settings the same for HT and music. For example- with music my receiver will save my speaker settings as large and utilize the sub differently than when in dolby 5.1 or other modes.
     
  5. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Scott,

    I assume you mean the crossover is cranked to the highest setting to get it out of the way, which is where it should be...though that wouldn't necessarily explain your problem.

    Ok, so you have all speakers set to small, the sub = yes. The sub connected via the LFE out, and you have calibrated with AVIA…..hhhmmm. I must confess to being a bit stumped. It sounds like something may be happening in Stereo or with the DSP mode(s), if both DD and DTS material sound good. Is this your first decent system? Listening to my favorite music was a big surprise for me when I first hooked up my system, because I was not used to hearing the bass that was there?

    Perhaps you have a funky room mode that is more noticeable on music that when watching movies. Most people will tell you they don’t notice a little miscalibration or something for movies, but critical music listening often reveals problems movies do not. Here’s a final suggestion: Get a test disk. Then go to Sonnie’s site and download his excel sheet that he put together for working with the BFD. You can find it here.
    You can play test tones through your system and plug the results into the excel sheet. This will tell you exactly what your system is doing in your room relative to the bass response. It will teach you a lot about your system and room and what your equipment is capable of. It’s a more extensive way to calibrate as well. Assuming this doesn’t reveal anything outrageous, you might want to borrow another AVR and see if Stereo sources play better with another AVR.

    Good Luck,
    --Steve
     
  6. Lee Carbray

    Lee Carbray Second Unit

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    Not sure it applies to your receiver but if you have a EQ(on my kenwood it is cinema eq) mode turned on it may give you a big base boost. Actually come to think of it make sure if you have a base adjustment(not lfe or sub )that it is not turned up.

    Oh, and how loud is loud?
     
  7. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    My old JVC would only implement the crossover in Dolby (Pro-logic and Digital) and DTS. In stereo and the DSPs a full range signal gets sent to the mains. There was no other bass management, very crude. I was forced to listen to music in Pro-Logic [shudders]. Most receivers are like that. So I had the exact same problme that you have. Now I have a new Denon 3803. It also sends a full range signal to the mains in stereo, but it has much better bass management. I don't know how it does it, but it sends bass to the mains and the sub, but it sounds wonderful.

    So, there is nothing wrong with the receiver or how you have it set up, it just has bad bass management. Sorry, because I have been there, and it sucks.
     
  8. Chuck Bogie

    Chuck Bogie Second Unit

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    Are you in a "stereo" mode, with the low stuff being sent to the sub, or in a "direct" mode, with only the two channels being used? That's what I'd suspect.
     
  9. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, scott, I had this same problem when I used to have an old sony as my receiver. I think that in the stereo mode for your receiver, the full signal is being sent to your mains, meaning that they get the full sound spectrum from 0-20000Hz, instead of the 80-20000Hz they usually get when in multi-channel mode. I think that you have two options:
    1. Check to see if you can engage the crossover function in your receiver to work while in stereo mode. In other words, in stereo mode, see if you are able to use a sub with your mains. Set your speakers to small, and when in stereo mode, try to turn your sub to on. If your receiver cannot do this, then...
    2. Get a new receiver or a sub controller, like one of the paradigm models. If your receiver cannot use the sub while in stereo, you will either have to replace it with one that does or get a sub controller. Either that, or always have your mains run as large and use some sort of high-pass crossover than might be on your sub.
     
  10. Scott MacKay

    Scott MacKay Extra

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    I have the sub crossover turned off because thats the way SVS said to set it. I have my receiver set to 80hz but could go as high as 120hz if that might help. I assume by using the receiver's settings, most of the bass would be going to the sub but that doesn't seem to be the case. The little 6" speakers in my mains don't handle much bass. As far as volume goes, I would say its around 70-75db. Not super loud.

    I am not sure if my receiver has the ability to store multiple stettings based on input. That probably doesn't make much difference any way. I am playing the cd through my dvd player. Actually I just checked and the receiver doesn't have seperate adjustable setting per input.

    How can I tell if I am in stereo mode? I assume that by turning off the surround, it is in stereo mode. Let me know if I am wrong other wise I will be looking for a better receiver. Thanks

    Scott
     
  11. Steve Raimand

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    Do you have an option to turn all effects off? I do on my Yamaha. That turns you into Stereo mode on mine.
     
  12. Scott MacKay

    Scott MacKay Extra

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    There are no options to turn off on my receiver. None that I can find anyway.
     
  13. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    I think if I were you I'd check to see if the bass setting is maxed out on the AVR since most AVRs from what I've seen in the past disables this on surround but allows it for stereo. I'd also check and see if the AVR has a separate speaker size setting for the stereo mode as well.
     
  14. John Stegman

    John Stegman Auditioning

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    I am unfamiliar with SVS subs, so I don't know if this will work. My sub is designed so you can connect the front speaker cables to the sub and from there out cables go to the front speakers. The sub crossover takes care of the integration of the mains and sub. I have the fronts(smaller bookshelf)set to "large" and don't have the sub outlet from the receiver connected at all.The sub category on receiver is set to "none". This allows me to adjust the crossover point and the base volume.
     
  15. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    What model and brand receiver do you have?

    This may help us to trouble shoot.

    Edit:
    Ghesh, it's right in his first post. My bad, very bad...:b
     
  16. Jose G

    Jose G Supporting Actor

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    Geoff, I believe he's using a JVC 7000V receiver and small speakers that may have trouble handling the bass. I suggested using the receivers 120Hz cross to redirect more of the bass to the sub and less to the mains because they seem to be distorting with the bass.

    By the way, Geoff, I emailed you a couple of time but seem to keep getting undeliverable mail. I did it again through the forum- let me know if you received it. You don't need to answer it just yet, just let me know if this email is working now.
     
  17. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    I had a JVC 6500, and it didn't matter what the crossover is set to. In stereo, the front speakers got a full 20-20000k signal, even with sub=yes, and the speakers set to small. It sounded horrible. That is why I got rid of it and got a Denon 3803. The crossover is only active in Pro-Logic, DD5.1, and DTS.
     
  18. Scott MacKay

    Scott MacKay Extra

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    I am thinking of buying another receiver but don't want to make the same mistake. I assume the Denon 3803 has better bass management. Any other suggestions ?
    Scott
     
  19. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Does your subwoofer have "speaker level" inputs and outputs? Most subs have a preset crossover for the outputs. So try those instead, and make sure the receiver is set to "large" mains (and especially) "no subwoofer".

    LJ
     
  20. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    I agree, It's definately worth a try before spending the $$ on a new AVR. No reason it shouldn't work.

    --steve
     

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