They have bailed out of the surround preamp market. Receivers only from now on. Double-bad because the Sony TA-E9000ES "could" have been upgraded to 6-7.1 and Denon's AVR-5803 has a preamp section that would have been a very logical extension of their slightly better built AVP-8000 surround preamp. Now, we basically end up with superb preamps coupled to "satisfactory" power amps. This is no negative reflection on the Sony or Denon receivers, since they do what they can given space and weight limitations in receivers.