Titles of Flip Discs being test marketed...

Discussion in 'Music' started by David Coleman, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. David Coleman

    David Coleman Supporting Actor

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    the DVD/A- CD discs titles that are listed on Audio Revolution.

    CD/DVD-Audio Flip Disc Titles Being Test Marketed, February 2004:
    Dist Sel # Label Artist Title UPC# P.O. # Order Qty
    WEA 48650 WB Barenaked Ladies Everything To Everyone 0-9362-48650-2-5 Jan 20 04 30
    WEA 278016 RHI Fagen, Donald The Nightfly 0-8122-78016-2-5 Jan 20 04 30

    WEA 48637 WB Linkin Park Reanimation 0-9362-48637-2-4 Jan 20 04 30

    WEA 62934 EE Elliot, Missy This Is Not A Test 0-7559-62934-2-6 Jan 20 04 30

    WEA 83704 ATL P.O.D. Payable On Death 0-7567-83704-2-7 Jan 20 04 30

    EA 78105 RHI R.E.M. Automatic For the People 0-8122-78105-2-8 Jan 20 04 30

    WSMD 90829 Dave Brubeck Time Out 82796-90829-2-8 15- Jan 20

    SMD 90830 Audioslave Audioslave 82796-90830-2-4 15- Jan 20

    SMD 90831 Good Charlotte The Young and. . . 82796-90831-2-3 15- Jan 20

    SMD 90789 Barbra Streisand The Movie Album 82796-90789-2-1 15- Jan 20

    SMD 90828 AC/DC Back in Black 82796-90828-2-9 15- Jan 20

    MD 90743 David Bowie Reality 82796-90743-2-9 15- Jan 20

    SUMG 6- B0001753-82 A&M Sheryl Crow The Globe Sessions 02498-61433-4 Jan 20 04 5

    UMG B0001746-82 Republic 3 Doors Down Away From The Sun 6-02498-61414-3 Jan 20 04 5

    UMG B0001750-82 Island Andrew W.K. The Wolf 6-02498-61423-5 Jan 20 04 5

    BMG

    EMI

    Surprise is some Sony Music titles.http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/....flipdisc.html
     
  2. FeisalK

    FeisalK Screenwriter

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    this is cute [​IMG]

    WEA 62934 EE Elliot, Missy This Is Not A Test
     
  3. Michael St. Clair

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    Hey, if anybody in Seattle or Boston can get me the Bowie disc, I'd appreciate it. Will reimburse via Paypal.

    When Universal started supporting both formats, there were posts here criticizing them, claiming (erroneously, IMO) that this would reduce their overall high-res support (i.e. fewer titles).

    I damned well expect some criticism of Sony. I'll be waiting. [​IMG]
     
  4. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    David, there are discussions over at the Audio Asylum that indicate Sony's discs are CD/DVD-V with 5.1 mixes and not DVD-A. If that is true I would not be surprised if they just just did it to muddy the waters a little. Best Buy has DTS CDs mixed in with DVD-A as do some online vendors. It already gives people the mistaken impression that DVD-A is one and the same as a DVD-V with less video.
     
  5. Michael St. Clair

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    OK, never mind on grabbing me a disc, if it's lossy, I don't want it. I'll wait and see what happens when they come out.
     
  6. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

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    Phil,

    This is the article at High Fidelity Review that include an official statement from Sony Music that says it will release DualDisc titles that feature CD/DVD-V.

    But no DVD-A for Sony Music.

    I think it will be even more confusing to the average consumer when they encounter the DualDisc. Is it DVD-V? CD? DVD-A? or SACD?
     
  7. Al B. C

    Al B. C Supporting Actor

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    WTF is Sony doing?

    If their version of dual disc takes off it just might compromise their support for SACD.
     
  8. Buzz Goddard

    Buzz Goddard Extra

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    So far all the Sony discs have only 2 channel PCM at 48k on the DVD side.
     
  9. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    Al, they may honestly be trying it out, but I really think they may be doing it as much at least to hurt the DVD-A flipper and figure it won't cost them much to try it out. I've seen people bitterly disappointed trying to return an opened DTS CD (in a DVD-A sized case) in Best Buy already on more than one occasion. It is unfortunate but I'm sure they ended up leaving with a less than good feeling about the format thru no fault of DVD-A.
     
  10. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] I don't know what to think....
     
  11. Michael St. Clair

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    It won't be as confusing as DTS CDs. I think that most of the returns of DTS CDs are people who can't play them in their boombox or car, not people who are disappointed to discover that the surround mix is lossy.

    Savvy high-res buyers will know what they are getting (lossy 5.1). And people who buy for surround, not resolution, won't care...or probably won't even notice the difference.

    That's my prediction, anyway.

    On the other hand, I think this is a really lame move for Sony. They should include high-res on these discs. Of course we all know why they won't. [​IMG]
     
  12. TomCW

    TomCW Second Unit

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    In the latest flyer I received from Rounder Records, there's a promo disc from Kathleen Edwards that's a DVD-V on one side and a CD on the other. I wonder how this fits in with the DVD-A/CD flipper technology, and with the disc confusion factor.

    Tom
     
  13. Michael St. Clair

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    It could be a DVD+, which has been around for a while (but definitely has compatibility problems, as the thickness wasn't quite right).
     
  14. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

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    Can a hybrid SACD layer be added on the flip side of the DVD-A/V side?

    So far, it's only being test-marketed. The whole idea can go down in flames for all we know. And even if it's a national rollout, it goes nowhere unless popular titles are released on this format.
     
  15. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    I have thought about this all day and something is bugging me....

    Where's the value proposition for the consumer?

    You don't get anything but a lossy transfer. [​IMG] Yeah, the addition of a video layer is somewhat interesting but this has not exactly ignited DVDA sales or title availability.

    It seems we now have three new formats, two of which are hirez and one maybe sometimes is.

    There seems to be only one possible good path from here: 1. all Big Five labels unite behind a CD with a hirez layer that's either DVDA or Super Audio (up to the label) and

    2. there is a push to standardize SACD/DVDA chips in universal players at reasonable price points.

    This way the consumer does not care which disc he gets and he has the option of a CD with some video content on the flip side.

    My guess is that Sony is taking a separate path for its audiophile/serious music fan niche with Super Audio and another for mass market trials in DualDisc. The current releases seem to suggest that on the surface anyway and I do like a lower price point if that comes to fruition.

    Maybe the hirez game is altogether different here and the labels are thinking they need to improve their value proposition to the redbook crowd by offering video and weaning people off some of the downloading.

    Curious strategy...

    I have to agree with Phil: this is going to really confuse the marketplace in the short run. It also would seem to hurt standard hirez options for retailers. They may think: "why should I help sell another format that may not work out, let someone else be the guinea pig."
     
  16. Michael St. Clair

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    I don't think the regular consumer will be confused, because the regular consumer doesn't know the difference between lossy and lossless, and they just don't care.

    Ask the regular consumer to explain the difference between DTS and PPCM/MLP. The answer will be "huh?"

    That said, I don't like what Sony is doing here. I do think all of the discs should include high-res. But I think the only person who will be confused/irritated is the audiphile, and those folks are used to multiple formats and will catch on quickly.

    But I still think Sony should either add high-res or get out of the pool. But confusing the mainstream? Nah, that's not gonna happen.

    Here is a good article about bonus DVDs helping music sales; what we have here is simply capitalizing on that phenomena but with a single disc instead of multiples.

    DVDs may answer the CD's SOS
     
  17. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    Michael, the people bought the DTS-CDs in DVD-A sized cases and were buying for DVD-A not to play in their car. It is reasonable for people to assume that in a section labeled as DVD-A, with something in the std. size DVD-A case is a DVD-A. Best Buy does not do the DVD-A format justice, as are the online retailers, selling DTS CDs as DVD-As. They went to separate sections for that reason.

    The average consumer would likely be happy with decent quality MP3s. Just go to a few Besy Buys and you'll likely find (non-hybrid) SACDs in the CD section as well as on occasion a DVD-A (I saw Elvis - the DVD-A not the person [​IMG] in 3 out of 5 local stores). The average mainstream consumer assumes that Circuit City and Best Buy employees know what they are talking about. Whether they like DD 5.1 mixes on flippers is another thing. It might be great to them.

    I would bet between the wrong side played alone, there will be at least several times the amt. of returns on the title as compared to a regular CD. What Lee said are that universal players are becoming the norm. Most peoples homes I go into have their player set-up either wrong or at less than optimum. Having software problems related to the use of a product is not going to cause less confusion. I've also heard that they cost a bit more than a regular CD. If true, even if only 10% of the people are confused and return them and relay their experiences to others, how is that going to help a niche product doing on the poor side already when those people and people they have contact with won't buy them any longer. DVD-A needs stuff to help boost sales and support, like more software by name artists, not stuff to add to an already confused market.
     
  18. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    I don't understand--why is Sony putting a 48kHz PCM track (according to another HFR article) on the dvd-video side on that AC/DC album? Is there some kind of video material present also?

    [​IMG]

    LJ
     
  19. Michael St. Clair

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    Well, I've seen DTS CD returned for not playing in the car, but to be fair this was in the old days when the discs weren't in a section labeled DVD-A and they came in regular jewel cases and digipaks, not super jewel boxes.

    I do agree that Best Buy needs to make a small DTS CD section if they are going to carry DTS CD.
     
  20. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    So why will they buy it if it's more expensive?

    Why won't they just go to the normal redbook bins and be comfortable with something they know?

    I think it's a stretch that consumers will pay extra for video content.

    However, if it's the same price as redbook then maybe we have something that can replace redbook.

    It appears the industry (Big 5) is trying a new product to see if they can tailor their value proposition to the mass market (at least as defined as normal CD redbook buyer).

    If that's the case, then I think Sony has still protected it Super Audio niche. And if its a hit, then Sony maybe offers a Super Audio layer on one side and moves to all hirez or DualDisc production.

    The issue on wide-scale production that remains is the extra costs involved, but perhaps Sony will eat this if it means more sales.
     

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