Titan A.E. bass levels (1 Viewer)

[Jon D]

An interesting observation:
I have a full DD and DTS set up, and I typically prefer DTS over DD, and due to this rather exclusionist trait I hadn't listened to the DD track on TAE. When I did, I made an interesting note: the DD track seems to be bassier, often by quite a bit. The DTS track does contain a lot of low end, but when I volume compensated the two tracks, the DD was consistently kicking me out the back wall wheras the DTS didn't measure up, and in some cases, completely paled in comparison. Has anybody else felt this way? Normally, I find DTS tracks have higher bass levels overall. Some spots I checked for levels include:
Opening scene: pretty consistent for most of it, but when the Drej shot Earth up the DD track was rumbling my ceiling with much more intensity.
Fight in the space station: the DD track contained noticeably higher bass in explosions.
The wake angel chase: the DTS actually beat the DD, but only this time.
The Ice Fields: the DD track was thumping my chest, wheras the DTS appeared much softer. My point of reference is the shot where the iceberg rumbles past the camera.
The final battle: DD had very intense bass. DTS did too, but it didn't kick me quite as much.
Anybody want to throw an opinion in? I love bass, but it is not the 'be all, end all'. This is just an observation I have made.
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[Matthew Anderson]

I have not listened to the DD track-only the DTS and it really rocks for me. I will have to check the DD out.
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[John P Grosskopf]

I'm one of the few people in the home theater arena who does not rabidly hold a generalized preference for DD or DTS. I strictly review the superiority of a given digital format on a title-by-title basis, rather than saying one is "always" or "usually" better than the other. My mind is much to open to play that silly game.
In my experience, the 2 are alomost never of the same quality for a given title, and I prefer one over the other about 50% of the time, with the with the overall advantage going to neither statistically.
In the specific case of Titan A.E., I have always prefered the DD over the DTS track. But I give it that edge not on the basis of a format, but because the DD mix sounds more
open, has deeper and more extended bass punch, and works better when decoded through an EX-enabled sound system.
I base this preference on a careful examination of the DTS and DD tracks, which are somewhat different sound mixes, and indicate that the masters used for both soundtracks were not the same.
For example, during the "Turn to Fly" sequence in the cloud nebula, the DD mix contains bass passages which are absent in the DTS mix. The same is true for the end sequence as well.
Also, during the destruction of earth, in DD EX, the ship that files directly at the viewer aims right for the center rear channel as it disappears into the rear wall of my home theater. In the DTS mix, the effect is there, but not articulated quite as well, and does not steer into the center rear channel with as much emphasis. Granted, Titan A.E. is not an actual EX title, but regardless, the DD mix could fool you into thinking it was one.
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"If you can't hunt with the big dogs, stay on the porch with the puppies."
[Edited last by John P Grosskopf on November 13, 2001 at 12:24 AM]

 

[Dan M~]

This is one of those threads where it would be useful to state what equipment you use and how you calibrated the LFE in DD and DTS?
-Dan

 

[Bjoern Roy]

I measured Titan DD vs DTS some time ago. After compensating for DialNorm, they are both the same. If the amount of bass in Titan differs on a particular setup, there might be difference in the LFE settings for the 2 formats.
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[Neil Joseph]

I also have not listenes to the DD track yet but next time I watch it, I will.
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[Matt Butler]

A bit off topic but is TAE any good? I started to watch it a while ago but got bored with it. Should I give it another chance?

 

[Jon D]

I use a fairly low end Sony DD/DTS reciever. I have the whole thing calibrated to AVIA. I'm pretty sure things are accurate, and like I said, in pretty much all of my other comparisons, DTS comes out with higher bass levels (Shrek, for instance). I'm planning to upgrade to an Outlaw, but that requires money that I currently don't have.
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Looking at the cake is like looking at the future. Without tasting it, what do you really know? And by then, of course, it's too late.

 

[Dan M~]

Jon D-

I use a fairly low end Sony DD/DTS reciever. I have the whole thing calibrated to AVIA.

But AVIA does not have a DTS LFE test tone to calibrate with, or am I mistaken? How did you calibrate your DD AND DTS system?
-Dan

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

You shouldn't need a DTS LFE tone if you calibrate the DD sub level correctly with Avia. The receiver should automatically perform the applicable +10db bump on the LFE of DTS tracks. Some receivers will have a +10db/0db compensation so you can turn off the +10db bump on DTS LFE, but receivers without this adjustment should default to the +10db setting. NOTE: This does not mean that LFE on DTS tracks will automatically be 10db higher than DD -- DTS's LFE is simply recorded 10db lower and compensated for during decoding.
As for whether Titan A.E.'s DTS track is less bassy than the DD, all I can say is NOT IN MY HOUSE! The DD is good, but the bass sounds overly compressed at times (which may give the illusion of it being louder). The DTS, on the other hand, is clear and deep and is my preferred listening experience for that disc.

 

[Neil Joseph]

quote: A bit off topic but is TAE any good? I started to watch it a while ago but got bored with it. Should I give it another chance?[/quote]
I found it to be quite good. The beginning is fast then things slow down a little after that. But I remember when I was watching it the first time, I was eager to find out what would happen. As well, the visuals and audio kept me locked into the film. I would rate the movie an 8/10.
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[Edited last by Neil Joseph on November 13, 2001 at 01:39 PM]

 

[Dan M~]

Jeremy-
Why do you think that the DTS is already calibrated? (Please don't take this a an attack on you... it's not) The signal is traversing a completly different decoder matrix. Yes, the 10 dB adjustment should be made, but the differences within your decoders may not. Are you sure the decoder in your equipment is not adjusting to 9 dB instead of 10 dB? What source can you refer to that indicates that once the DD level is calibrated, that the DTS levels are automaticly calibrated? VE does not mention this (nor does it address DTS), does Avia? It seems that if one decoder needs to be calibrated, that the other would need calibrating too. (I do understand that not all decoders allow for a separate calibration of DD and DTS)
I'm eager to learn how this is done.
-Dan

 

[Jon_B]

My observation in my home theater was that TAE had too much bass. I was constantly securing anything that wasn't nailed to the wall. Once I stopped one rattle, another rattle would appear. This was with the dts version. So, if the dd version has more bass, I'm glad I didn't watch it.
Jon

 

[Jon D]

No, my reciever doesn't allow for independent level calibration when it comes to DTS. Overall I find that, aside from the LFE, the channel balance is virtually identical. That's one reason I need to upgrade my amp, to gain a DTS LFE adjustment, becuse some times it doesn't seem like my amp is adding the 10 db adjustment

. Maybe that'll change my opinion.
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Looking at the cake is like looking at the future. Without tasting it, what do you really know? And by then, of course, it's too late.

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Why do you think that the DTS is already calibrated? (Please don't take this a an attack on you... it's not) The signal is traversing a completly different decoder matrix.

I don't take it as an attack, and if I'm wrong then I hope someone more informed will correct me (Guy Kuo around anywhere?). But as I understand it, the decoding in a receiver for both formats is handled by the same chip and therefore isn't subject to level variations based on differing decoding matrices (although the software used by the chip for each format differs). The decoding stage itself is merely dividing the digital 5.1 (whether DD or DTS) into each of their respective channels to be sent to the amplification stage. Once you've adjusted the receiver so that amplification to each channel is producing the same decibel levels at your seat, the format shouldn't matter (i.e. DTS, DD, DPL-II, etc.) because the signal path remains the same.
Now, if you were using an outboard DTS decoder that was seperate from your DD decoding, I could understand how that could differ. Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong or explain it more clearly than I can (because I'm at work, and I'm too tired to think).

 

[AndrewW]

quote:
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A bit off topic but is TAE any good? I started to watch it a while ago but got bored with it. Should I give it another chance?
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I heard all the hype on this forum and decided to go buy it when I got my SVS sub...I thought the movie was horrible..Started out OK, and then just got long and boring. Yeah it's got bass, but the trade off is not worth it IMHO.

 

[Seung Kim]

I agreee with guys mentioning that TAE bass levels are way too much sometimes.
My neighbor never calls a cop when I am blasting my movies, but that streak is broken when I blasted Titan AE in DTS reference level. I knew it was little too much out the window!

 

[Dan M~]

Hi Jeremy-
Thanks for responding. I agree with everything, including:

...the decoding in a receiver for both formats is handled by the same chip and therefore isn't subject to level variations based on differing decoding matrices (although the software used by the chip for each format differs).

So you need to calibrate the differences induced by the software. The DD and DTS pass through completely different decoding software (and hardware "paths" within the decoder).
Within the Dolby Digital domain, you go through the effort to calibrate the Front L,C,R and Rear L, R speakers as well as the LFE. All decoded by the SAME (DD) software. Does it not seem to reason that the LFE (and all other speakers)using a DIFFERENT(DTS)software would need to be calibrated too?
-Dan

 

[Ralph]

The bass of TAE is out of this world. Always present but it still keeps a very low profile ..... it should always be like that !
I watched this movie (which I consider to be totally underestimated by movie critics) in DD and I was absolutely amazed by both the movie quality and the sound.
In my view, FOX has delivered a great movie in a top-notch quality, movie and sound-wise !
Just my $.02
Ralph

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Within the Dolby Digital domain, you go through the effort to calibrate the Front L,C,R and Rear L, R speakers as well as the LFE. All decoded by the SAME (DD) software. Does it not seem to reason that the LFE (and all other speakers)using a DIFFERENT(DTS)software would need to be calibrated too?

The key is this: You're not calibrating Dolby Digital, DTS, or their respective softwares... you're calibrating the speaker levels. You're just using a Dolby Digital feed set to certain reference levels to perform this function. The decoding software, regardless of which format, should not induce a higher level in any given channel since the decoder is basically seperating the bitstream into its component channel data and sending it out for digital-to-analog conversion. DTS and DD will be passing through the same signal path and the same digital-to-analog conversion in a receiver, which means that any level variation induced by the signal path should be identical for both formats. This is why you'll see many here who will tell you that level calibration can be performed just as well with the receiver's internal test tones (which is absolutely true, assuming the acoustics of your room aren't enhancing certain frequencies in the test tones).
So as I said... unless you're using an outboard DTS decoder or your receiver doesn't properly bump the LFE for DTS, there is no need for a seperate DTS calibration. Again, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me.