Time Flies: Apple event confirmed for 9/15

Thomas Newton

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According to Apple's development documentation, Rosetta 2 will not translate/run
  • Kernel extensions
  • Virtual Machine apps that virtualize x86_64 computer platforms
  • Some newer instruction sets and processor features, such as AVX, AVX2, and AVX512 vector instructions
This means that current Intel-based versions of Parallels Desktop, VMware Fusion, etc., won't work under Rosetta 2. The lack of vector instruction support might be an issue for some CPU/GPU-intensive applications, but presumably, those are the ones that would stand to gain the most from ARM-native versions optimized for Apple Silicon.
 

Ronald Epstein

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According to Apple's development documentation, Rosetta 2 will not translate/run
  • Kernel extensions
  • Virtual Machine apps that virtualize x86_64 computer platforms
  • Some newer instruction sets and processor features, such as AVX, AVX2, and AVX512 vector instructions
This means that current Intel-based versions of Parallels Desktop, VMware Fusion, etc., won't work under Rosetta 2. The lack of vector instruction support might be an issue for some CPU/GPU-intensive applications, but presumably, those are the ones that would stand to gain the most from ARM-native versions optimized for Apple Silicon.

For the moment, that would be a problem as I regularly use Parallels. That being said, I expect those companies will be upgrading their software to work for the new ARM Macbook/Pro in hopefully a short period of time.
 

Ronald Epstein

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I don't put ANY stock in that leak at all @Ronald Epstein

I hear yuh. I have to say, been reading a lot of Mac Rumor sites and it seems to be a close to 50/50 split on whether the iPhone will be announced at all on Tuesday. I am going to say no. Would rather see Macbooks and Macbook Pros announced.
 

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No phones is my bet. I'd give good odds on that. It seems like the usual suspects all got unofficial word from Apple to post that there would be no phones (Snell, Dalrymple, iMore) so anyone who tells you different is trying to get clicks.

I'm not gonna say there won't be any macs, but if there is one I suspect it will be just one. I'd bet against any tho.
 

DaveF

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I thought it was already said that Parallels or VMWare are being updated for ARM.

Now, if you currently rely on Parallels to run Windows, you might be out of luck. No one yet knows if or when Windows will ever run on Mac ARM.
 

Ronald Epstein

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I thought it was already said that Parallels or VMWare are being updated for ARM.

Now, if you currently rely on Parallels to run Windows, you might be out of luck. No one yet knows if or when Windows will ever run on Mac ARM.
What else does Parallels run? I thought it was a VM for Windows.
 

Thomas Newton

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What else does Parallels run? I thought it was a VM for Windows.
Parallels is an Intel-based application that creates virtual Intel machines. Windows is just one of the operating systems that you can install in these machines. While Parallels advertising focuses on Windows (because that is the main sales draw), you can install many other Intel-based OSes, including assorted distributions of Linux, BSD Unix. and Mac OS X.

I believe that when Apple demonstrated Linux running inside of a VM on an ARM-based Mac, they used a version that was built for ARM CPUs. So we saw an ARM-based OS running inside an ARM VM on an ARM-based Mac.

An ARM-based version of Parallels or VMware Fusion that can create Intel-based VMs that are good enough to "fool" a guest operating system will be a more complex beast. Doable, perhaps, but not exactly trivial. The fact that Rosetta 2 will not support Intel virtualization instructions suggests that.
 

Thomas Newton

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I thought it was already said that Parallels or VMWare are being updated for ARM.

Now, if you currently rely on Parallels to run Windows, you might be out of luck. No one yet knows if or when Windows will ever run on Mac ARM.
Parallels is working on a version of Parallels Desktop for ARM-based Macs . I think it's safe to say that the product will be able to create ARM VMs.

Their blog does not say whether it will be able to create Intel VMs. When people asked about Windows or x86 code, answers were along the lines of "Thanks for reaching out. You can find all information regarding Parallels and Apple Silicon here: https://www.parallels.com/blogs/apple-silicon-wwdc/. Be sure to subscribe to this blog to be first to get updates regarding future releases. We sincerely look forward to sharing more information about Parallels Desktop’s support for Mac with Apple Silicon in the future."
 

Ronald Epstein

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A day before the event...

I am actually more excited about this event than I have been in years past.

Reason being, all the products, and specs were usually leaked before the event. You knew what was coming before it was even announced. There weren't any real surprises. Last year, the biggest surprise I remember was that Apple TV+ would be free for a year for those who purchased an Apple product.

This year is different. There are f-ing rumors all over the place and nothing really solidified.

I have been watching more of Rene Ritchie these days despite the fact I have said I am not a fan. I think he has seen the criticism over his attempts to be overly dramatic and trying to throw in witty catch-phrases. Lately, his material has been more down-to-earth and as thus, I think he's putting out good information or at least, puts things in a proper perspective.


As for leaks, this is a new one for the Apple Watch. I am a HUGE fan of the watch and I have to say there is nothing new this year that has been leaked that is making me want to upgrade from Series 5. Last year it was the "always-on" face that pushed me to upgrade. However, from what we know thus far, there isn't anything huge coming from the new watch other than a new color and blood oxygen feature.

But getting back to the watch rumor, this one talks about "quick charging"

 

Ronald Epstein

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Parallels is working on a version of Parallels Desktop for ARM-based Macs . I think it's safe to say that the product will be able to create ARM VMs.

Their blog does not say whether it will be able to create Intel VMs. When people asked about Windows or x86 code, answers were along the lines of "Thanks for reaching out. You can find all information regarding Parallels and Apple Silicon here: https://www.parallels.com/blogs/apple-silicon-wwdc/. Be sure to subscribe to this blog to be first to get updates regarding future releases. We sincerely look forward to sharing more information about Parallels Desktop’s support for Mac with Apple Silicon in the future."

Thomas,

Thanks for all the information.

So, even with the link Parallels has provided on their own page to those wondering whether ARM devices will run Windows, one walks away not knowing anything at all.

I get the idea that the software team at Parallels isn't even certain they can modify their software to run it.

While the capability to run Windows is almost a #1 priority for me (I have to have my DVD PROFILER after all), it's current lack of functionality on ARM devices is not going to stop me from buying a new ARM Macbook Pro if it is announced. I am looking to get in on the ground floor of future technology.

One of the main issues I have with my current 13" Macbook Pro is that while it's an awesome laptop and really, really quick it won't properly drive my new 49" monitor the way my 16" MBP will. I can't get the proper resolution and I *think* that's due to the improved video card on the 16" over the 13". If I am wrong about this, I would love someone to correct me.
 

Ronald Epstein

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This guy swears he has the ultimate leak on AirTags. There is some pretty shitty news that comes with it. You watch and see how Apple decided to make more money off this device...

 

dpippel

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So, even with the link Parallels has provided on their own page to those wondering whether ARM devices will run Windows, one walks away not knowing anything at all.

I get the idea that the software team at Parallels isn't even certain they can modify their software to run it.
I can tell you this, Ron - Parallels is doomed if they can't find a way to virtualize Windows on ARM-based Macs. It's the #1 reason people buy the app in the first place, particularly in the business world. I work at the largest public university in the U.S. and have installed Parallels on macOS dozens of times for faculty and staff. Every single one of those installations was done to set up a Windows VM for the user. I've never had a request for any other OS.
 

Ronald Epstein

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I can tell you this, Ron - Parallels is doomed if they can't find a way to virtualize Windows on ARM-based Macs. It's the #1 reason people buy the app in the first place, particularly in the business world. I work at the largest public university in the U.S. and have installed Parallels on macOS dozens of times for faculty and staff. Every single one of those installations was done to set up a Windows VM for the user. I've never had a request for any other OS.
Oh, agreed. Parallels must be shitting bricks right now if they haven't found a way to run Windows on ARM devices.

That is their entire business model.

That's why in a post above I said, "What else does Parallels run?"
 
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Ronald Epstein

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More leaks


I put in a bid with SELLYOURMAC for my 2019 13" MBP. Getting 40% of what I paid. There is a site offering 50% but I am not sure how reputable they are.

Did this just in case a 14" MBP gets announced. Once it's announced the resale value of my 13" goes down.
 

Thomas Newton

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Thomas,

Thanks for all the information.

So, even with the link Parallels has provided on their own page to those wondering whether ARM devices will run Windows, one walks away not knowing anything at all.
Yes.

I get the idea that the software team at Parallels isn't even certain they can modify their software to run it.
There's another possibility.

Suppose that Microsoft is working on an ARM-based version of Windows 10 – but that this time, they are not repeating the mistake they made with RISC / NT and with Surface RT. This time, they're including Intel emulation support – say, the Windows 10 equivalent of Rosetta 2. (Maybe not good enough for IT types who like to shuffle around Intel-based VMs in data centers, but good enough for people who want to run desktop applications.)

Suppose that Microsoft had told the makers of Parallels and VMware Fusion – under non-disclosure agreements – that they re working on this. If that is the case, Parallels and VMware Fusion wouldn't need to support Intel VMs to support Wintel applications. The makers of those applications might have decided that they only needed to provide ARM VMs, at least at first. But they would not be able to come right out and tell us this because of the hypothetical Microsoft NDA.

Or it could be, as you say, that the Parallels team is not certain that they can create efficient Intel VMs within which you could run the Intel version of Windows 10.

Both alternatives seem plausible. We do not have enough information to determine if either is correct.
 
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DaveF

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I'm working full time in the office, so no realtime apple event for me tomorrow. haven't decided if I'll check the web for announcements during the day, or wait 'til I get home to watch the even proper. :)


While the capability to run Windows is almost a #1 priority for me (I have to have my DVD PROFILER after all), it's current lack of functionality on ARM devices is not going to stop me from buying a new ARM Macbook Pro if it is announced. I am looking to get in on the ground floor of future technology.
The safe bet is assume you can't run Windows on a new Apple Silicon Mac for at least the next six months, if ever. Lots of speculation whether MS cares about Windows sales on Mac enough to get their (effectively abandoned?) ARM version updated and day-one launch worthy for Apple. Also don't know how much Apple cares about this either. I'm assuming Windows on Mac is dead, but always enjoy a good surprise.

I can tell you this, Ron - Parallels is doomed if they can't find a way to virtualize Windows on ARM-based Macs. It's the #1 reason people buy the app in the first place, particularly in the business world. I work at the largest public university in the U.S. and have installed Parallels on macOS dozens of times for faculty and staff. Every single one of those installations was done to set up a Windows VM for the user. I've never had a request for any other OS.
If there's no ARM Windows, it can't be virtualized. It will be emulated. And that will kill performance and suck. (To my meager understanding of these things and the terminology.)

No 120Hz screen...yawn... Does anyone care about this except the gadget nerds?
 

dpippel

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If there's no ARM Windows, it can't be virtualized. It will be emulated. And that will kill performance and suck. (To my meager understanding of these things and the terminology.)
To be completely accurate, it would be emulated AND virtualized in that scenario. It's also possible that Parallels could emulate the x86 hardware layer and allow x86 Windows installs, but yeah, that performance thing is huge.

I'm wondering if, in the short-term, we'll see Apple use ARM CPUs in the MacBook/MacBook Air, and leave the MacBook Pro as an Intel-based machine. I've got to say that in the higher education market, running Windows on a Mac is a pretty huge deal. Losing that functionality would be somewhat apocalyptic.
 

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