Tilt 'N Scan - the new OAR violator (1 Viewer)

[MatthewA]

35mm is 1.33:1. Cheers was 1.33:1. Cheers must always be shown in 1.33:1 or Hell will be raised.

 

[MatthewA]

And to complain to them, write to this:
[email protected]
And tell them that TV shows, as well as movies, should be in OAR as well.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I just hope that every person who argues that the way to stop P&S is to sell more widescreen sets sees this thread.

1.78 TVs have the same problem that 1.33 TVs do, not every video source was made to fit their screen.

That will always be true, there is no way around it.

The best thing a TV manufacturer can do is to make the TV capable of scanning multiple aspect ratios. But no matter what one aspect ratio will always be smaller than another on any TV set.

And the same people will always be wanting their set filled up, be it 1.33, 1.78, or a new 2.35 standard.

 

[Scott H]

35mm is 1.33:1.

Just for clarification 35mm is not any one AR, though conventional 35mm has an exposable aperture of 1.37:1 and Super35 an exposable aperture of 1.33:1.

And I think Seth makes a good point regarding 16:9 TVs. They are just another AR. They are not a better AR than another, and films with other OARs will inevitably be altered to fit those screens. I would bet that the majority of 1.85:1 films currently on DVD are cropped to 1.78:1 though labeled otherwise. I am certain of the practice.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

If I understood this correctly:

THIS IS THE REASON WHY 16:9 TV SETS IS NO SOLUTION TO THE P&S VS OAR PROBLEM!

"Caps lock" makes it seem like I'm talking really loud, and that's exactly what I'm trying to do.

Selling more 16:9 TVs is probably a good thing, but it is NO substitute for making people accept OAR.

 

[Jerry Gracia]

shooting 1.78:1 with a primary 4:3 frame centered. Thus they are simultaneously composing for both ARs

Ah...nope, nevermind.
[thinking] Don't do it![/thinking]

 

[Alex Spindler]

You know what I can see in the future. 4:3 shows with sidebars carrying advertising. It's a station-bug loving channel's dream come true. Not only do they have commercial breaks, but they can have the television version of pop-up ads whenever they want (or news/weather, schedule, or possibly information regarding the show you're watching).

Hmmmm, the future may not be so bright. Bring on TV on DVD (in OAR of course) before it's too late!

 

[Bryan Tuck]

You know what I can see in the future. 4:3 shows with sidebars carrying advertising. It's a station-bug loving channel's dream come true. Not only do they have commercial breaks, but they can have the television version of pop-up ads whenever they want (or news/weather, schedule, or possibly information regarding the show you're watching).

I actually wouldn't mind that if it would give them an excuse to keep the OAR.

This is ridiculous. I heard about a film festival in Chicago in which Roger Ebert was introducing An American in Paris. He was dismayed to find out that they were matting the 1.37:1 OAR to 1.85:1, because they thought people wanted widescreen.

I don't know what else can be done. I guess pretty soon we'll be campaigning for windowboxed versions of 4:3 material. Maybe they can show a caption similar to the "This film has been modified..." one that runs before a lot of movies on TV nowadays. Have it say something like "This film is presented in the original 1.33:1/1.37:1/2.35:1/2.55:1 aspect ratio of its original presentation," or something to that effect.

I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

You know what I can see in the future. 4:3 shows with sidebars carrying advertising. It's a station-bug loving channel's dream come true. Not only do they have commercial breaks, but they can have the television version of pop-up ads whenever they want (or news/weather, schedule, or possibly information regarding the show you're watching).

I can just see all the companies selling removable mattes already.

 

[Jim Moore]

Makes me wonder if some 16:9 television owners will be the "Joe Six-Packs" of the future. "Darn it, why does Citizen Kane have those black bars on the side. I want it to fill the whole screen."

 

[paul o'donnell]

Seth Paxton Wrote:

I just hope that every person who argues that the way to stop P&S is to sell more widescreen sets sees this thread.

Exactly. Wider is not neccesarily better. What we're trying to do is convince the masses not to tamper with 'art' and goals such as these are nearly always doomed when on a grand scale such as this.

Channel 4 over here annoy me (sorry, little rant here). They're always saying how they preserve director's intent when showing films on their station. But they only show 1.78:1 framing, even when the OAR is wider. This is just being 'hip' and I HATE that. Formatting something to fit you're cool widescreen TV is the EXACT same thing as fitting it to your 'out-of-date' 4:3 TV.

Grrrrrrrr.

Preservation and correct presentation are what need to be stressed. Saying 'wider is better' is the same as saying 'colour is better than black and white'. They are simply about technical advances and offer nothing in the way of education. Classic movies and TV shows will suffer on widescreen TV as much as post 1952 movies suffer on current TV.

Okay I'm done, breathe.

 

[MatthewA]

I emailed Paramount and this is what they said:

CHEERS, like many shows, was shot on film and has an original aspect ratio

of 16x9. The images were of course framed and cropped for the standard 4x3

TV image. New transfers of CHEERS available in 16x9 will have the image

and are not actually cropped from a 4x3.

However, we have not provided any 16x9 transfers yet to cable or TV.

Please let me know what station, if any, you have seen a 16x9 broadcast on.

I am asking them to prove to me that this is the truth. If it is true, then it is much ado about nothing. If they are lying...

 

[Jonathan Perregaux]

I was about to say "Idiots!" until I read that bit about the show having been filmed in widescreen to begin with. That's kinda cool, actually. I wonder how many other TV shows were stealthily shot in Academy Flat widescreen instead of Standard.

 

[John Berggren]

I would be both shocked and amazed if the OAR of Cheers were indeed 16:9. I would buy editions of Cheers on DVD in 16:9 if this were true. I think, however, it's more likely the program was shot, framed, and exists only in 4:3. Any divergence from this would cause lost or distorted image, which I would not tolerate.

OAR for all television and movies, from 1.33:1 all the way through 2.76:1 and beyond.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

CHEERS, like many shows, was shot on film and has an original aspect ratio of 16x9. The images were of course framed and cropped for the standard 4x3
TV image. New transfers of CHEERS available in 16x9 will have the image
and are not actually cropped from a 4x3.
However, we have not provided any 16x9 transfers yet to cable or TV.
Please let me know what station, if any, you have seen a 16x9 broadcast on.

Oh, horseshit. They wouldn't be 'tilting and scanning' as mentioned in the other article if the show were 16:9. They would simply do an unmatted transfer. Somebody is feeding a line of bull.
No US TV show was shot in 16:9 20 years ago.
I guarantee these 16:9 transfers will be missing imagery that is present on today's syndication version.

 

[Brian Kidd]

They are lying through their teeth. 16:9 television wasn't more than an idea, if that, when CHEERS was originally filmed. You got a reply from some corporate flunky who is feeding you the line they've been told to. Most idiots would never know the truth. Paramount must really think we're stupid.

 

[MatthewA]

No US TV show was shot in 16:9 20 years ago.

That's what I suspected, and I would like someone to prove to me that it was. If they can't I will boycott this whole misguided undertaking.

 

[Jerry Gracia]

CHEERS, like many shows, was shot on film and has an original aspect ratio of 16x9. The images were of course framed and cropped for the standard 4x3

I think it's a lie as well.

16:9 for consumers simply didn't exist for commercial TV back then...so how could they have been filmed in any aspect ratio other than that of the fully exposed 4:3 negative?

Certaintly CHEERS was never intended for eventual theatrical release!

I have a really REALLY hard time believing that CHEERS was shown cropped in 4:3 all these years.

 

[Jerry Gracia]

That's what I suspected, and I would like someone to prove to me that it was.

Outside of those who were directly involved in the making of the episodes?

Good luck.

 

[John Berggren]

No US TV show was shot in 16:9 20 years ago.

Although this is almost completely true, there is at least one exception: V: The Beginning was shot in 1.85 with an eye for foreign theatrical release. Kenneth Johnson goes into this on the current 1.85 anamorphic set from Warners. I don't know the status of V: The Final Battle, and I suspect V: The Series was 4:3.