THX question (1 Viewer)

[Matt Weldy]

Is the thx logo worth the extra cash that it seems to add to a reviever.

 

[RichardMA]

THX plain, THX, THX Ultra or Ultra 2.
Pick your scam.

 

[BobRoulier]

THX plain, THX, THX Ultra or Ultra 2.
Pick your scam.


Richard, I am assuming your gear is non thx certified?



Bob

 

[GordonL]

Is the thx logo worth the extra cash that it seems to add to a reviever.

Why do you say that? There are also non-THX equipment that costs more than THX equipment. Specifically which THX and non-THX equipment are you comparing?

 

[RichardMA]

Richard, I am assuming your gear is non thx certified?

My Marantz amp is, my Denon AVP-8000 was.
My new stuff is not. IMO, the games THX
plays with "standards" (that are never fully
disclosed) means that aside from the few
specifications they do provide that make sense,
the rest really don't add anything to equipment
that is already top notch.

 

[Geoff S]

Is the thx logo worth the extra cash that it seems to add to a reviever.

For the most part no.

I'll try to give you a general answer based on what I have and what I have experienced, but there is such a range to this question it is not recomended to decide anything based on just one person's comments.

First, as for THX being a scam, it used to mean something much more than it does now. Ensuring a minimal set of hardware requirements made huge differences, but now pretty much all mid to high end receivers meet a "minimal requirement" so IMhO the real benifit to having a THX receiver is in the Post Processing such as THX Surround EX or THX 5.1, providing Re-EQ, addaptive decorrelation, and timbre matching in panning effects. Where THX is considered a scam is not so much in the original THX spec, or the new Ultra and Ultra 2 specs but they're more remembering THX Select-- When equipment couldn't meet the original THX spec the spec was tweaked and downgraded to match the equipment, allowing the logo to be on the product and the price to be jacked up, now that's a scam!

I own a Denon 4802 receiver, MSRP $2,499 and THX Ultra. Below it is the 3802, $999 MSRP and not THX. The big differences are 20 more watts per channel, a $500 remote (Atkis 800), and THX (others like variable crossovers etc. minor stuff). Lets take away the remote, and drop about $300 for additional features... so in this comparison the THX adds nearly $700 to this receiver. Disputable it is, but you have to agree that IF the 4802 was not THX it would be at least $500 or so cheaper. Is that little logo on the front of the receiver, and som Re-EQ worth it to you? For me I wanted that spec, and I find THX Ultra in the hardware to give some reassurance on my purchase and I feel Post Processing gives a better cinematic presentation and warmer sound so this time around I decided to go THX on my receiver and for the most am happy I did, but when I think about pocketing a few extra hundred dollars and giving up THX it seems like a good deal. Take THX if you want a receiver with more in established minimal requirements, and somewhat of a garuntee of great hardware and better film presentation (which doesn't mean better sound quality).

Hope this gives you some insight but in the end it chops down to personal opinion, no way around it.

 

[JeremySt]

THX is like the good house keeping seal of approval. It means a particualr product meets a set THX set of standards. Those standards usually include a given level of wattage, and THX post-processing.

In no way does it imply that the product is better than non-certified gear. Some of my gear is certified, and some is not. It makes no difference to me. There are other criteria that are far more important. Some of the best High End gear in the world lacks the THX badge.

 

[GordonL]

Geoff,
Your analysis of the 3802/4802 is off. First, the differences between the 3802 and 4802 is substantially more than you make it out to be. Second, take away the $500 remote and the difference is $1000. That $1000 difference in MSRP translates to approximately $200-300 or less in actual cost of the parts/labor/overhead/advertising/manufacturer profit to build in the additional features of the 4802. The $700-$800 markup is to allow the distributor and dealer enough margin to make a profit otherwise you would not be able to get the 4802 for the ~$2000 or less street price. THX does not add $700 to the price. One person who is involved with manufacturing THX equipment said that you could barely buy lunch at a fast food place for what THX charges. Given the size of Denon and the number of pieces they sell worldwide, the cost of THX certification adds probably less than $10 per unit.
On the other hand, within a manufacturers product line, being THX certified can mean higher overall costs because it costs more to build an amp that can pass THX certification. Taking the 3802/4802 for example, the 4802 weighs ~10 lbs more, which I would attribute primarily to the the beefier power supply. If Denon could get the 4802 certified with the weaker amps of the 3802, wouldn't they have done so? IMO, THX is more useful when comparing low-end amps/receivers and less important as you move up into mid/high level gear.

 

[RobertSchaez]

This will probably stir up the "Who makes better sounding stuff" arguement, but no Yamaha products are THX certified, reason being that 1. They make alot of their own chips, especially DSP stuff, that probably wouldn't fit into the THX scheme and is proprietary in design. 2. Why bump up the price of equiptment for a name tag?

 

[Justin Lane]

Why bump up the price of equiptment for a name tag?

Everyone who says adding THX certification increases the price of a product significantly please show me the source for your information. From everything I have heard, THX certification in itself does not add much to a piece of equipment... it is making the equipment to conform the THX requirements (power supplies, amplification power) which adds to the price.The biggest misconception I hear spread is that if you buy a receiver right before the THX certified receiver in a particular manufacturers product line, you will be essentially getting the same product.

THX processing does provide a significant benefit in my opinion when viewing many films. It is not something one can dismiss like any other of the gimmicky processing modes found on many receivers. I also do not understand everyone's beef with THX Select. This spec was designed specifically with the smaller sized home theater in mind. The power requirements are not as high as the Ultra specifications, but then why should they be. Smaller sized home theaters should be able to enjoy the benefits that the larger ones do with THX certification.

Let me put it this way....I have listened to many bad non-THX certified items, but I have yet to hear THX certified component I would consider bad.

J

 

[Geoff S]

Gordon,

I was refering more into the hardware that makes it THX, not so much the cost of just sticking the THX Badge on it, which like you said only costs a few bucks fer unit. The amps, power supply, processors: take them away and put in hardware that wouldn't meet the THX spec, or come just below it, such as what the 3802 has, and you have a lot less cost. Although many people say a 3802 with separate amps blows the 4802 away, although I feel that the amps in the 4802 are very good for an all in one receiver, and should be incrediable if you went 4802+separate THX Ultra amp such as a Parasound 1205A, which I hope to do in time.

 

[RichardMA]

THX is like the good house keeping seal of approval. It means a particualr product meets a set THX set of standards. Those standards usually include a given level of wattage, and THX post-processing.

"Seal of approval?" Then explain the flawed software
(DVD/LD/VHS) products released from time to time
with the "THX" seal? But please, go ahead and quote
their standard for power amps:?

 

[GordonL]

"Seal of approval?" Then explain the flawed software
(DVD/LD/VHS) products released from time to time
with the "THX" seal?

Is it really THX, the organization that defines the standard, that is at fault, or is it the implementors, the telecine operators for not being more diligent? Is it realistic for THX to police everyone who tries to implement the standard?

 

[Howard_S]

I'm a believer in THX.

But of course there are good THX certified products and not as good THX certified products. But as of right now, all THX Ultra 2 certified products are great and have features that you definitely want.

When it comes to receivers/processors there are certain features that are very desirable and by having a THX Ultra 2 receiver/proc or THX Select etc. you're getting a product that is guaranteed those certain features. Besides why wouldn't you want more processing? If there's a THX disc that sounds better on a processor that does THX postprocessing why wouldn't you want it? THX is not gonna make every dvds sound better but it will make some dvds sound better. Especially when you have a big room to fill something like THX Ultra 2 has it's benefits. The point is that you're better off having it than not having it (since you can always turn it off) whether it's worth it to you is another matter.

Amp wise I could care less.

 

[RichardMA]

Amp wise I could care less.

Actually, that's a good attitude to have. It will
save you money because (for instance) the difference
between Bryston THX amps and non-THX versions is
NIL, except for the badge and the price.

 

[Lee Daza]

[sarcasm]

Anybody ever heard of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. ? They charge you some money to test your product and then put a silly label on it. It's a big scam I say. I mean, why would I want to buy a home space heater that has the 'UL' logo on it when another one from East Jabipp looks like it puts out the same amount of heat? Stupid, stupid UL, what do they think? Like they're going to make an entire industry hold to certain quality standards just because of some silly LOGO?! Sheesh.

[/sarcasm]

 

[Lewis Besze]

Is it really THX, the organization that defines the standard, that is at fault, or is it the implementors , the telecine operators for not being more diligent? Is it realistic for THX to police everyone who tries to implement the standard?

They are supervising all those projects,so yes it's their fault.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

When I'm choosing a DVD, I don't care if it's THX certified or not I just get what I like best. That probably goes the same if I chose receivers in the same price range.
I've heard some THX multimedia certified equiptment that sounded like utter garbage. That was when I lost some of my respect for it. I also have heard commercial THX certified theaters that are loud, but the sound quality isn't impressive and there is slight audible hiss + projector noise during quiet scenes.
I just don't think it's worth the money to buy ALL thx certified equiptment and end up with a system that can still sound Different due to room effects and ground loops. Hey, maybe they'll add THX certified rooms and power conditioners soon... and then THX thermostats and seats.

 

[GordonL]

I've heard some THX multimedia certified equiptment that sounded like utter garbage. That was when I lost some of my respect for it. I also have heard commercial THX certified theaters that are loud, but the sound quality isn't impressive and there is slight audible hiss + projector noise during quiet scenes.

Let me re-phrase the point I am trying to make. THX defines what the standards are/should be. If an implementation fails to meet the standard, does that invalidate the standard? Or does that invalidate the implementation? It seems quite a few of you are basing your opinions on sub-par implementations.

 

[Kevin. W]

Buy what you can within your limits. Some people feel more comfortable with the logo some don't. Does it add to the price? Maybe, maybe not. I took a look at the Kenwood VR-6050, VR-6060, and from the specs the only differences are that the 6060 has, Component Video Input/Output, Component Video Switching, Extra Digital Inputs(Optical), DTS ES, LCD Text Remote, Learning Remote, Extra S-Video Input/Output, S-Video Switching and THX Ultra. All for $100CDN(70US) more than the 6050. How much each of these extra's adds to the price difference could only be answered by Kenwood. WHat it all boils down too, is that we as HT enthusiats, until we have THX certified "EVERYTHING" in our setup and that also means our HT listening area we can't honestly say is it worth the extra cash. And unless the makers of the receivers are willing to breakdown the cost of a unit as the automakers do with their base models upto the deluxe we will never know if THX is the main reason for the price difference between to receivers.
Kevin