Thunderbolts (MCU) (2025) (1 Viewer)

[The Obsolete Man]

Oh.

They're using the Suicide Squad version of T-Bolts.

Well, I guess it would be impossible to do the real version. It was too tied into events in the Marvel U at large, and there's no way they could hide the surprise of this new Superhero team really being villains in disguise the way the book did until the final page of issue 1.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I think we should be talking about Jake Schreier. He directed Robot and Frank, which I thought was a delightful movie from about ten years ago. Here is the trailer.



As of when I'm writing this, the movie is currently included with membership for Amazon Prime users if you want to watch it. (It's not a Prime original and can probably be bought or rented elsewhere too, but I thought to mention Amazon because it's a way to watch it for free if you already have the membership.)

Schreier isn't the flashiest director in town and isn't a widely known name, but he's good. I'm really interested to see what he does with this. Hopefully if it's good it will open some bigger doors for him in the future.

When he made Robot and Frank, Schreier worked with Liv Tyler. Most of the general public probably doesn't remember because she hasn't been seen since The Incredible Hulk, but Liv Tyler *is* Betty Ross in the MCU. If they want to tie Thunderbolts to William Hurt somehow, they could bring Tyler back In her capacity as his on-screen daughter. Maybe they have a funeral for Hurt's character and she's there and various members of the team meet there or something. I don't know; it's hard to say without knowing what the storyline is going to be. But I do think this could present an opportunity to see Betty again, especially since Schreier and Tyler have already worked together. At the very least this presents a sensible and respectful way to write Hurt's passing into the MCU.

 

[Kent K H]

Thanks for those numbers, Jake. It seems that the first film wasn't as much of a failure as I remembered. Ironically, I thought Gunn's effort was far superior and it ended up doing a lot less business.

Oh, Gunn’s movie was infinitely superior. The first SS movie might be the worst of the current DC films, and that’s not pretty.

Suicide Squad (2016) had a worldwide gross of $745 million.

The Suicide Squad had a worldwide gross of $167 million last year. Of course, that result has to have an asterisk because of the pandemic and because WB put it on HBO Max simultaneously.

The thing about the BO is that not many people saw the film in theaters (though I was one of them) but a whole lotta folks watched on HBOMAX and then watched Peacemaker, so I feel like the comparison is just pineapples to hand grenades.

Regardless, I have liked all of the Marvel proper films with the exception of one, as well as the three MCU Spidey films. (We don’t need to get into Venom and Morby.) So I still have pretty good hope in the track record of the company. They might eventually lose me, but I’m still giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[Jake Lipson]

The thing about the BO is that not many people saw the film in theaters (though I was one of them) but a whole lotta folks watched on HBOMAX and then watched Peacemaker, so I feel like the comparison is just pineapples to hand grenades.

That's why I said that the gross needed an asterisk. The gross is the gross and it is recorded properly in the record books. But the gross does not represent the entirety of the film's initial viewership in the way it would if the film had been released under more traditional circumstances.

That being said, we don't have official numbers for its HBO Max viewership either because they don't put that out. So there isn't really a way to say accurately how many people watched it there either.

I have liked all of the Marvel proper films with the exception of one

Which one?

While Marvel's track record is not perfect, I do think that it is mostly very good and the fact that they have been able to turn out so much stuff at such a high level is really impressive. We are currently coming off of a film that I didn't like as much as usual in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, which I thought was poorly written. But even that had interesting things in it and a lot of really cool visual inventiveness. If there is something interesting being done even in their lesser titles, they've earned my loyalty. I am certainly willing to continue showing up for them as long as they keep making good stuff. I see no reason for the announcement of Thunderbolts to cause alarm. And technically, Marvel hasn't even officially announced it yet. The trades did. I'm not saying that the trades are wrong, but this is in early development. We will learn more information about Marvel's approach to the project when they are ready to tell us. Even though there are certain similarities to Suicide Squad, I don't think we should rush to judge this yet.

 

[Kent K H]

Which one?

Eternals.

Spoiler

Much like with the first Hulk film back in the day that fell flat, I appreciate that they were swinging for the fences, but it was so dreary and featured so many characters that I either disliked outright or didn't care about that I found myself getting caught up in all of the poor plotting and how it sort of broke the cosmology of the established universe in a way I was not fond of.

Even the others that I thought were weaker (Iron Man 2, Thor: The Dark World, Captain Marvel) were fun, propulsive and well-made enough that I enjoyed them.

 

[Alex...]

 

[Jake Lipson]

None of that is really surprising because Marvel has been setting those characters up for a while now.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Not surprising that Yelena would be the main character, given that Florence Pugh is the biggest name and Yelena is the most likable of the antiheroes established so far.

But I figured that Zemo would be the team leader, both because he was in many of the iterations of the Thunderbolts in the comics, and because he's been shows as a master strategist within the MCU.

Quite a few Thunderbolts members in the comics that have been established in the MCU already (excluding characters from the Netflix series, which may or may not be canon in the MCU).

Likely to appear:

• Baron Helmut Zemo (Captain America: Civil War; "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier")
• Black Widow/Yelena Belova (Black Widow, "Hawkeye")
  She's already in the Countess's employ.
• US Agent ("The Falcon an the Winter Soldier")
  John Walker is already in the Countess's employ.
• Taskmaster (Black Widow)
  Antonia Dreykov is free of her father's control, but she's also without her father's considerable resources. Her unique skillset would be valuable to someone like the Countess.
• Ghost (Ant-Man and the Wasp)
  When the Blip happened, Ant-Man was trapped in the Quantum realm and Hank Pym, Janet Van Dyne, and their daughter all got dusted. So Ava Starr never got permanently cured of her condition. The Countess would likely have the ability to get her what she needs to survive.

Less likely to appear:

• Hawkeye/Clint Barton (Thor through "Hawkeye")
  He's reconciled himself with his shady past, and I don't see him willingly wading into the gray areas again.
• The Wrecking Crew ("She-Hulk")
  They appear in one episode, and they're presented as pretty low-level thugs who don't give the untrained She-Hulk much of a challenge.
• The Leader (The Incredible Hulk)
  His character was introduced in the Marvel/Universal film, but he hasn't been seen since. If they were going to do something with him, you'd think they would have done so by now.
• Winter Soldier (Captain America: The First Avenger through "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier")
  Bucky is Team Cap, and he just worked to help defeat John Walker. Why would he ever agree to be on the same team as him?
• Abomination (The Incredible Hulk through "She-Hulk")
  He seems happily rehabilitated, living the good life under parole with his seven soulmates.
• Spectrum (Captain Marvel, "WandaVision")
  It seems like Monica Rambeau has business elsewhere, dealing with the cosmic side of things alongside her fellow Marvels.
• America Chavez (Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness)
  When we last saw her, she was training under the watchful eye of Wong, the Sorcerer Supreme. She is far more likely to be a Young Avenger than a Thunderbolt.

Unlikely to appear:

• Ant-Man (Ant-Man through Avengers: Endgame)
  Ant-Man has his own standalone sub-franchise.
• Batroc the Leaper (Captain America: The Winter Soldier, "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier")
  Didn't Sharon Carter shoot him dead?
• Crossbones (Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Captain America: Civil War, and Avengers: Endgame)
  Brock Rumlow blew himself up during Civil War.
• Whiplash (Iron Man 2)
  Ivan Vanko died at the end of the movie.
• Swordsman ("Hawkeye")
  The MCU version of the character is mostly a good guy, and from a high income bracket. He doesn't need the Countess's money.
• Thunderbolt Ross (The Incredible Hulk through Black Widow)
  The version in the MCU never became the Red Hulk, and the actor who played him has passed away.
• Janice Lincoln (Spider-Man: Far From Home)
  In the comics, she is the daughter of a supervillain and one of several characters to suit up as the Beetle. In the MCU, she's just an engineer who worked for Stark Industries and then supported Quentin Beck's scam.
• Jackson Norriss (One Shot: All Hail the King")
  In the comics, he is a SHIELD agent codenamed Nighthawk. In the MCU, he was an operative of the Ten Rings who broke Trevor Slattery out of prison and brought him to Wenwu.
• Shocker (Spider-Man: Homecoming)
  One iteration of the character dies, and his successor ends up in prison. But the main reason we're unlikely to see him is because the rights to the character are held by Sony.
• Flash Thompson (Spider-Man: Homecoming, Spider-Man: Far From Home, Spider-Man: No Way Home)
  The MCU version of the character is a shrimpy nerd, and the rights to the character are held by Sony.
• Doctor Octopus (Spider-Man: No Way Home)
  The rights to the character are held by Sony, and the version that appeared in the MCU was from an alternate dimension in the multiverse.
• Venom (Spider-Man: No Way Home)
  The rights to the character are held by Sony, and the version that appeared in the MCU was from an alternate dimension in the multiverse.
• Electro (Spider-Man: No Way Home)
  The rights to the character are held by Sony, and the version that appeared in the MCU was from an alternate dimension in the multiverse.

 

[Joe Wong]

 

[Joe Wong]

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Confirmed cast:

• Julia Louis-Dreyfuss as Countess Valentina Allegra de Fontaine
• David Harbour as Alexei Shostakov/Red Guardian
• Wyatt Russell as John Walker/U.S. Agent
• Hannah John-Kamen as Ava Starr/Ghost
• Olga Kurylenko as Antonia Dreykov/Taskmaster
• Florence Pugh as Yelena Belova/Black Widow
• Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes/The White Wolf

EDIT: Sorry, @Joe Wong , your post hadn't loaded on my end when I posted mine!

 

[JimmyO]

Oh boy..Pugh *and* Harbour? Ok, now I'm interested.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Everybody has been comparing this to Suicide Squad. But that list of stars demonstrates Marvel's strategic advantage in doing something like this because those are all characters that we already know from across various other projects.

Pugh *and* Harbour?

That makes sense. This almost feels like a semi-Black Widow 2 because Pugh, Harbour, Kurylenko and Louis-Dreyfus all made their MCU debuts in that movie. (Yes, yes, I know we saw Louis-Dreyfus first in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but Black Widow was filmed first and the order changed because of COVID.) Which makes me wonder: why the three of them and not Rachel Weisz (Melina) too? She was good in Black Widow but didn't have a whole lot to do in it. I wonder if that was a one-off or if they have plans to weave her back in later.

The Leader (The Incredible Hulk)
His character was introduced in the Marvel/Universal film, but he hasn't been seen since. If they were going to do something with him, you'd think they would have done so by now.

It is interesting you mentioned this because Marvel confirmed today that Tim Blake Nelson will return in this role after all, but in Captain America: New World Order instead of this film.

Marvel has really been reaching back to The Incredible Hulk lately in a major way. Of course, they pulled William Hurt out of it for Civil War, but that was basically just so they could use an actor of his caliber again.

Now, in very short order, we've had Tim Roth in Shang-Chi and She-Hulk, Nelson in New World Order and references to the events of The Incredible Hulk in What If? last year too.

Winter Soldier (Captain America: The First Avenger through "The Falcon and the Winter Soldier")
Bucky is Team Cap, and he just worked to help defeat John Walker. Why would he ever agree to be on the same team as him?

Well, you were wrong on this one because Bucky and Walker are both in this movie. I'm not surprised Bucky is returning, but I find it interesting that it is here instead of New World Order with Sam. I figured he would more or less have to appear in that because it is the next Captain America film. But they confirmed Nelson and Carl Lumbly for New World Order today while only saying Sebastian Stan would be in this one, not that too.

I suspect that your question about why Bucky would ever work with Walker will be a source of dramatic conflict that this movie will use.

Edit for housekeeping: I've updated the first post with the release date and cast information.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I like this roster. Although I wonder if it is complete.

I thought maybe Blonsky would be on the team and that Zemo would be involved as well. I’m sure it’s possible that they are holding some stuff back. But if not I still like the grouping presented here.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Officially released better quality version of the concept art for the team’s roster:

 

[Alex...]

 

[Jake Lipson]

I'll believe that when Marvel announces it.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

William Hurt was General Ross. No need to recast when you can just introduce a new character to serve the same function.

 

[Sam Favate]

William Hurt was General Ross. No need to recast when you can just introduce a new character to serve the same function.

Normally I’d agree, but they need “Thunderbolt” Ross for the title of the film.

There was a suggestion that Marvel wanted him to be with the cast of the film at D23, but that Lucasfilm objected and wanted the focus to stay on the next Indiana Jones film. I personally find that hard to believe, and I think it feeds the haters of Kathy.

Kathleen Kennedy Blocked Marvel Announcing Harrison Ford Casting at D23: Report

Lucasfilm president and Indiana Jones producer Kathleen Kennedy reportedly 'put her foot down' [...]

comicbook.com

 

[Jake Lipson]

they need “Thunderbolt” Ross for the title of the film.

Still no need to recast. Name the team after Thunderbolt Ross because it was his pet project when he passed away. Done.