THREE COINS IN THE FOUNTAIN - mono or stereo

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Joe Caps, Aug 1, 2004.

  1. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    Three Coins in the Fountain has been listed on several sites for a few weeks, but never any information about the sound. the original film was four track stereo. the laserdisc was stereo.
    today, dvd times has a listing of the title with its features and it says the disc is english mono!!! I certainly hope not.
    Does anyone have any info?
     
  2. Ken Koc

    Ken Koc Screenwriter

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    It has to be a typo . I just got "Zorba the Greek" and it was listed as full frame but it is 1.85:1. Fox seems to have lots these errors. Remeber "Journey to the Center of the Earth"?
     
  3. ArthurMy

    ArthurMy Supporting Actor

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    Of course it's going to be stereo. Fox may make a mistake or two but not that kind of mistake. No need to fret before there's something to fret about, really.
     
  4. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    Fox has a bad habit of losing their stereo tracks.
    They first began running new transfers of fifties scope stereo movies on Cinemax in the seventies. they ran pan and scan stereo transfers of Best things in Life are Free. Sound and the Fury, In Love and War. They have since been shown in new letterbox transfers on Fox Movies but in mono only.
     
  5. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    What exactly happened to the tracks? Did they disintegrate or were they "misplaced"?
     
  6. ArthurMy

    ArthurMy Supporting Actor

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    "Fox has a bad habit of losing their stereo tracks.
    They first began running new transfers of fifties scope stereo movies on Cinemax in the seventies. they ran pan and scan stereo transfers of Best things in Life are Free. Sound and the Fury, In Love and War. They have since been shown in new letterbox transfers on Fox Movies but in mono only."

    You're talking about Cinemax not DVD. I may be wrong about this, but I can't think of an instance where a Fox DVD was supposed to be stereo but was mono. I do know that several titles were mistakenly announced (either by Fox or a website) as mono, but the DVD turned out to be stereo. That was really the point of my earlier post - it is inconceivable that Three Coins wouldn't be in stereo and I'm pretty positive it will be. I don't think there is a need to worry at this point in time. IMO.
     
  7. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    We have coming up, Three Faces of Eve - originally four track stereo, but that seems to be a mono disc.
     
  8. oscar_merkx

    oscar_merkx Lead Actor

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    is this not the latest FSC to be announced ?
     
  9. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    The above ignorant statement is from DVD FILE. It really annoys me when people assume that every film from the 50s must have been in mono. Looks like it's not 4 track though.
     
  10. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    That's because exhibitors were often unwilling to install stereo equipment; so every stereo film after the very first CinemaScope wave DID have a mono track available as well as a stereo. And since the stereo track on this is 2.0, then the phrase "the original mono" is neither incorrect nor "ignorant."
     
  11. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    In this case it IS ignorant. It sounds like dvdfile thinks that this is a remix and not an original stereo track. 2.0 means that fox can not find their four track original and is lifting the track from an older video.
    Oh well. At least it ain't mono!! This is a wonderful film.
    BTW - four years ago I went to Italy for the first time and I wanted to see all of the fountains shown inthe opening prologue while Frank Sinatra is singing the title song.
    A friend of mine who is a travel agent told me I would have to leave Rome to see most of them cuz they are mostly at an estate - the Villa Deste 19 miles outside of Rome. How right he was. I had my picture taken in front of all of these wonderful fountains.
    Fans will see many of the sets reused from Fox first scope film, The Robe. The hopme of Clifton Webb is part of Richard Burtons house in TheRobe. The set for the Bergoyne cocktail party is yet another part of Burtons home from the Robe.
    The apartment where the three lead women live is actually a redressed apartment from How to Marry a Millionaire.
    Great fun and the film was nominated for Best Picture of 54!!
     
  12. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    Come off it! When STAR WARS first came out many exhibitors played it in mono. Are you saying that the upcoming DVD should include "the original mono" track on that basis!!
     
  13. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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    3 Coins played in many theatres in optical mono not in 4 track mag stereo during the early days of CinemaScope when many theatres didn't opt for stereo conversion immediately. There was therefore, an original mono track. The comment about a 2.0 stereo mix may be true if as Joe Cap says, the original was 4 track magnetic. But why the fuss? Geez. It's coming out and it is a very good film. Sounds like it's been visually restored as well.


    "Make it mine, make it mine, make it mine!"
     
  14. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Because it's not fun unless there's SOMETHING to bitch about!

    And of course, I never said I wanted a mono mix of STAR WARS, and I never said THREE COINS should have a mono track on the dvd. I'm just that saying "original mono" (as opposed to a Dolby 2.0 matrix) is not an incorrect statement.
     
  15. John Whittle

    John Whittle Stunt Coordinator

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    A small bit of history is in order here. When Fox announced Cinemascope it was a licensed presentation and if a theatre wanted to be equipped for Cinemascope they had to:

    1. Buy the B&L projections lenses (only B&L lenses are Cinemascope lenses)
    2. Buy the Fox Miracle Screen
    3. Buy and install the four track mag penthouse sound reproducer system.

    (Producers also had requirements as to budget size and pictures had to be shot in color).The four tracks were three behind the screen Left, Center and Right and a triggered surround channel.

    There was no mono track, no optical track on the original Cinemascope release prints. The original aspect ratio of the print was 2.55 and the projectors had to be re-centered on the screen since the optical center of the mag sound print was different from a flat optical sound print.

    When Cinemascope took hold, many other people entered the lens market (SuperScope, et al).

    Later Fox allowed the Mag-Optical print which had a 50 mil optical track along with the four track mag print. They also allowed black and white Cinemascope productions (Compulsion for one).

    Three Coins in the Fountain was one of the early Fox Scope productions and while there may have been a mono track it was probably for foreign use, but that's another question.

    BTW for the record, this was all 20 or more years before Star Wars. When Star Wars came out, few theatres still had their penthouses installed and Star Wars was a very early Dobly Stereo Optical sound release which is an entirely different process. It derived it's four changes from a matrix of RtLt which decoded to Left Center Right and surround.

    John
     
  16. ArthurMy

    ArthurMy Supporting Actor

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    Even thought DVD File lists it as 2.0 I still wouldn't believe it quite yet. These things have a way of turning out correctly and we'll just have to wait and see. I sometimes get the Fox titles early here in NY, so as soon as I get my hands on this I'll let you all know what the real scoop is.

    And to Joe: just how do you know Three Faces of Eve will be mono? Is that another web announcement or do you have some factual info? Also, I saw the film way back when and when I saw it it was definitely mono.
     
  17. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Well that's true, but smaller exhibitors immediately resisted the idea of forced conversion to stereophonic sound. Once the first wave of CinemaScope conversions was ready for THE ROBE in the fall of 1953, Fox was forced to alter its stereo only policy, as no other studio was forcing exhibitors to take the entire package, and they were not willing to give up profitable "playoff" dates in smaller venues.

    The 1956 introduction of magoptical prints was merely designed to avoid dual inventory prints which was the policy until that time.

    I'll admit to playing devil's advocate here a little, but is it really necessary to beat up on dvdfile for such a minor gaffe? It's this habit we forum posters have(myself sometimes included) to think that everybody else is just blisteringly stupid. Do we have NOTHING else to complain about?

    By the way, I STILL say that if the disc doesn't contain the original directional four track sound, then the mono mix is actually MORE original than a Dolby 2.0 mix with all of the dialogue in the center.
     
  18. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    Ther is NO reason to believe a 2.0 mix will have all the dialogue in the center.
    The last 2.0 (for laserdisc) had the usual wide dialgue Fox spread. I have never heard a fox four track film mixed to matrix 2.0 that had the dialogue altered.
     
  19. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    You may be right, but I was thinking of the 2.0 mixes on both THE ROBE and HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE with center dialogue, but, to be fair, they were included ALONG WITH the original 4.0 mixes. We'll have to see what it is....and I really I hope you're right, cuz the directional sound is so 1950's, it makes it alot more fun.
     
  20. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    It must be way too early for me, I've got too get some sleep. Cause these two quotes, too me, sound to be in opposition too each other.
    Unless Joe your saying a 2.0 matrix soundtrack will still provided directional dialog. Which would be COOL!

    DVD's are capable of a 2.0 Dolby Surround Track. DPL (or DTS) would then be able to matrix the encoded two channels to 4.0. Not discrete, however this would allow a processor to deliver the original four tracks.
    Of coarse we would all prefer a discrete 4.0.
     

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