Thoughts on the new Elite 47A DVD ? (1 Viewer)

[Dave Moritz]

Am looking to upgade my Pioneer DVD player in the next two months. I currently have a Pioneer DV-525 that has been ok. I was going to buy the Kenwood Sovereign but am now leaning towards the new Pioneer Elite DV-47 A that does DVD, DVD-A, SACD and MP3's. I am even concidering a Pioneer Elite 49TX receiver to replace my Yamaha RX-V995 ? Does anyone have the Elite 47 A DVD and what do you honestly think of it. I want a high quality DVD for when I get a front lcd projector or rear projector set. Also the fact that it does SACD is a plus.

 

[KeithH]

Dave, there has been quite a bit of discussion about the '47A here over the past month to six weeks. Do a search. I recall that one thread was rather lengthy. Also, search the Hi-Rez Highway message board on Audio Asylum, as there has been some discussion of the '47A there too. That message board is dedicated to DVD-Audio and SACD. Here is the link:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t...orum=hirez&s=U
The '47A got very positive write-ups recently in Home Theater and Sound & Vision, and it's European counterpart, the DV-747A, garnered high praise in a recent issue of Hi-Fi Choice out of the UK. I would take the Home Theater and Sound & Vision reviews with a grain of salt because the reviewers for these magazines tend to like most everything in my opinion. On message boards, it seems that reviews have been mixed. Most people seem to like the '47A with DVD-Audio, but reviews of its SACD capability have gone both ways. Regarding video quality, I'm sure your search here will yield some useful information. The Hi-Rez Highway message board I spoke of above only deals with audio.

 

[John Kotches]

Keith,

I wonder how much of this is bias?

The DACs (CS-4397s) are well regarded in some players sold for DVD-Audio, and well regarded for other players sold for SACD.

I suspect that there is only one set of analog stages.

That doesn't leave much to go wrong, except (maybe) the filters used on the DSD decoded output.

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

The DACs (CS-4397s) are well regarded in some players sold for DVD-Audio, and well regarded for other players sold for SACD.

John,

Whatever the reason, the SACD performance has been widely panned on this unit. I suspect poor circuit design is the culprit, if not poor implementation.

I also have build quality issues as well.

Lee

 

[Phil A]

SACD playback quality is the weakest link of the player. It is not terrible, but certainly not up to the performance levels of some other units.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Phil,
Amen on the above. It turns out Pioneer has a history here as well. Check out Jonathan Scull's report on the much pricier ($6K) big brother, the DV-AX10 at
www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?515

SACD was eh, so-so—which I found incredible, as I'm so accustomed to it sounding great.

Interesting
What is frustrating here is that some audio fans listen to SACD and DVDA on these two players and proclaim that SACD is inferior. That is really unfair to Super Audio no matter what side you are on.
A shoot out live in the mastering studio from the mike feed is the only definitive way to decide. This I agree with Mr. Kotches on. Alas, the results are expensive to obtain, although I have heard the feeds live and you know which side I am on.
Lee

 

[KeithH]

John,

The negative comments regarding the SACD capability of the '47A that I have read on Audio Asylum could stem from a bias. For one thing, the build quality of the '47A is lackluster. So, some may be biased against the performance upon taking the thing out of the box. Secondly, it is a DVD player, and DVD players traditionally are lacking in the audio department. Anyway, I suppose a bias could be operating with some folks.

Lee,

I too read J-10's review of the 'AX10 in Stereophile and was surprised and disappointed by his comments regarding SACD capability. However, doesn't the 'AX10 run the DSD bitstream through a PCM DAC? Without getting into a heated debate about DSD vs. high-resolution PCM, the use of a PCM DAC for SACD could be less than ideal. Just a thought.

By the way, I too am disappointed with the build quality of the '47A.

 

[StaceyS]

SACD playback quality is the weakest link of the player.

I would argue that the video is the weakest link on this player. Then again, I am interested in an accurate reproduction of what is stored on a DVD, which the pioneer cannot provide.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Stacey,

The video is also poor?

Wow, that surprises me. I have a DV-05 and the video on that unit is excellent. Are you refering to chroma issues or am I missing something?

Lee

 

[BobRoulier]

I too agree the video is not up to par with some other players for example I have a sony ns700 which has a great pic and is limited to dvd I wanted to get a player that offers dvd a or sacd so I tried the 47a and keep in mind that I own a 49tx reciever and love it!
video quality the sony had a little better pic than the pioneer which suprised me and dissapointed me too!
cd comparison I couldnt tell any difference
dvd a and sacd awsome but It was the first time I heard the two so I have nothing to compare it to
IMO which I am no expert it did not blow me away even at the $755.00 price tag tweeter with the trade of my sony 700 they were going to give me my $300.00 back after 3 months to upgrade not a bad deal but the video wasnt awsome
So Im thinking get the sony 900 which has sacd and I already know what kind of video performance im gettin maybe a tad better....... or the toshiba 5700 with dvd a but not sure of the video? any suggestions?
Thanks Bob

 

[StaceyS]

I have a DV-05 and the video on that unit is excellent.

It is better than the 05, which has even more problems. The 05 has a couple of serious MPEG issues. One is the delay between the two color channels. Though it is not as bad as the DV09, but it is somewhere around 1/2 a pixel.
Lee, go an buy an RP56 and use it for your video viewing, you will thank me later. I would suggest the Denon 1600 because it adds DVD-A, but we know were you stand on that subject.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Stacey,
Even more reasons to get a Sony player and pick up SACD as a bonus...
Seriously, I will look into it. With DVD technology, you are behind new generation tech almost 6-9 months after every purchase. I would try to the Denon 1600, but I get listener fatigue from PCM's zero crossing distortion....

Lee

 

[KeithH]

Lee said:

Even more reasons to get a Sony player and pick up SACD as a bonus...

...assuming the 'NS900V and 'S9000ES are as good on the video side as the 'NS700P. The 'NS700P, which has been discussed in this thread, doesn't do SACD. I would guess that the 'NS900V is at least as good as the 'NS700P as a DVD player since they are of the same generation. I have read that the 'NS900V provides a better picture than the 'S9000ES.

 

[Dave Moritz]

i did not spend alot of time in the store and fi it would have been a store near my house I would have brought my own dvd movies and my sacd's. The salesman at Ultimate Electronics in Utah all agreed that it was a better unit than the Sony in there opinion. I listened to the only demo they had witch one of the cuts was the Morman Tabernacle Choir that sounded very good. They had this played thru a ht set of Infinity speakers. They also had the Sony ES that seemed to have issues and did not seem to have the picture of the Pioneer Elite? I currently have a standard Pioneer DV-525 that is ok for now. With everones help and input I hope to not make a bad choice in choosing a dvd player that may or may not do sacd.

Thanks, Dave

 

[Stan T]

I have the DV-47A hooked up to a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX & I love it. So what if it doesn't weigh 40 pounds. The video is better on this unit than the DV-38A & the SACD & the DVD-audio sound great. As far as the SACD goes it gives great sound. I don't know what the complaints are. The 10bit Video DACS give a great picture. I haven't regretted my purchase on this unit at all. It's a great universal player. For the price you can't beat this player. You can find it online for $750 with shipping included at Soundpros.com

 

[KeithH]

Stan said:

I don't know what the complaints are.

Well, like anything else, not everyone is going to agree. You know the way people are when it comes to picture quality. Some make a big deal about the chroma bug, etc. For some people, the '47A doesn't do the job on the video side. That's bound to happen with any DVD player. On the audio side, it shouldn't be surprising that some will prefer the Sony ES SACD players. Again, it's bound to happen. The Sonys are great components. I'm not passing judgment either way, as I have limited hands-on experience with the '47A, but I'm just saying that you shouldn't be surprised to hear that some people don't like it.

Finally, I think the build quality is a real issue. It may not impact the performance, but for $750 and with an Elite badge on the front panel, the thing shouldn't be so flimsy. It's one of those Elite components that is built like a mass-market Pioneer product. Just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Dave Moritz]

The last store I saw the 47a also had the Kenwood Sovereign and the 47a look just as good as the Sovereign. Almost every Sony ES in the store was hanging up and the picture was braking up like digital cable does. Glad to hear your opinions on the product. There is a chance I may end up with the Elite 49 TX along with the 47a DVD? Hoping to have a web page done for my HT system soon.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Was anyone able to get the Elite 47a with wood panels ? The store I first saw the 47 at said that was not availble. This is something I think is stupid because just about all Elite models have the atracktive wood panels that help set them off.

 

[KeithH]

Dave, the '47A is not available with wood sidepanels. Pioneer seems to have done away with that on the Elite products. None of the current Elite receivers have wood sidepanels either.

Dave said:

Almost every Sony ES in the store was hanging up and the picture was braking up like digital cable does.

How many Sony ES DVD players did this store have on display? There is only one ES model available (DVP-S9000ES). Anyway, I have never seen such behavior with the 'S9000ES. It is an excellent product. I'm not saying it is better than the '47A, just that it is an excellent product in its own right. If you were seeing pixelation on the 'S9000ES, it could have been a result of dirty DVDs (fingerprints), which is very common with demo discs. Many players will struggle with dirty discs.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I may be mistaken but I beleive the was at least two different units. One was a DVD/SACD and I think the other was a straight dvd. Both where ES and you may be right it may of been dirty disc's that where causing the problems. I am not a big Sony fan and I am really tuff on them but when I see something that I like from them I do not dismiss that certain model at all. All I want right now is find a really good replacement for my aging Denon DCD-1290 Compact Disc Player

. Mainly because I want to get a newer cleaner dac if possible and have SACD capability. Companies are doing alot better job building companents now. And there are still a few companies building junk but not many. My first plan was to go seperate DVD and SACD (Kenwood Soverieign & Sony 777ES SACD) But due to budget constrictions and the amount of upgrading I want to do. The DVD player might as well play SACD if the performance is there.