Those of you that use subs to listen to music...

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Jonathan T, Jun 8, 2003.

  1. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    Do you guys Xover all of the information below a certain frequency and have only the sub pay it or do you run your mains full range and have your sub "bring up" the "low end"?
     
  2. Mitch E S

    Mitch E S Stunt Coordinator

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    No help here. I've done it both ways and don't have a preference. It really depends on your own equipment (speakers, amps, sub, prepro). I'm sure you've tried it and can't decide either. Right now I've got mine set as small crossed over at 80. It sounds damn good either way.

    Mitch
     
  3. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    Ok, well, I've been disputing which way to set my system up and I guess I'll just take the easier route which would be to run my mins full range and have the subs bring up the low end.
     
  4. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    Jonathan, what are your main speakers and how low do you think they will play? I'm just concerned that playing bass through them could distort the rest of the sound.
     
  5. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    My speakers will be either HE12.1s or HE10.1s. I've got some stuff that will go down into the low 30's and probably even lower, but I just can't hear it.
     
  6. Chris Elm

    Chris Elm Stunt Coordinator

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    I run my mains (klipsch rf3II) as small, along with the rest of my speakers. It is my understanding, (and you are probably well-aware), that if set to large, a full range signal will be sent to your mains, basically recognizing no sub at all except for the other speakers that you have set to small.
    Since most speakers cannot play flat (+/- 3 Db) well below 50 Hz (I think most start tapering off at around 80), then I recommend you set them to small, because a sub is designed specifically for that purpose.

    WIll you be using the LFE port from your reciever, or using low-level connections (if your sub supports that)?
    When I had my mains set to small, I found the bass to be lacking, especially in two channel stereo mode for music.

    You're mileage may vary[​IMG]
     
  7. RichardHOS

    RichardHOS Second Unit

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    There are several technical advantages to running your mains as "small" even if they are large floorstanding speakers.
     
  8. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Are you using a home theater receiver or stereo integrated amp (or tube preamp and amp)? Also, what sub are you using/going to use? And finally, being an HE10.1 owner, I would go with the HE12.1 towers. Likely to have a bit fuller sound with the obvious deeper extension as well. The HE10.1's are great speakers in terms of clarity and dynamics but I wouldn't use them without a sub.
     
  9. With my mini monitors (Geoffrey Dillon's EGO's), I let them naturally roll off second order at 80hz. Then I bring in the sub to fill with a 2nd order highpass.

    With my larger Usher 2-ways (Dennis Murphy's), I will leave ported and XO electronically 2nd order at 60hz, and then XO my sub into it. (this is a new speaker with a new sub, so I haven't worked out the best XO order yet....but I currently have 2nd, 3rd and 6th order electric to work with on the sub).
     
  10. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    Johnathan, the Adire HE speakers can produce quite a bit of bass, but I would be concerned about setting them to large, because the really low frequency sound effects (
     
  11. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    Ok, I'll probably invest in the HE12.1s then.

    At first I will be using an Onkyo PL reciever. It has a "sub out" that is actually a full range output that you have to crossover seperatly. The reciever will drive the mains full range no matter what you crossover the subs at. My subs will eventuily be 2 AV-15's each in their own 4 cubic foot sealed enclosure stuffed with something like 64 ounces of poly fill and driven with 750 watts. More than able for music only purposes. Later on, when I get the money, I will invest in a seperate tube amp.

    This whole setup is complicated quite a bit. As you guys have said, it is probably a better idea to xover my mains. I will be able to do this 2 ways. The Philips 963 (I will be getting it along with everything else) has bass management so I could crossover everything there, but then I'd need 2 volume controls. Or I could just build a seperate xover with a bunch of other goodies and a volume control. Futhermore, the bass won't be summed into 1 channel this way. In both cases, all of the connections, xingover, volume control and so on will be done at the line level. Sub amp will be a Samson S1500 (Very cheep power). What do you guys think?
     
  12. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    TTT
     
  13. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    Jonathan, I think it's OK to start out full range (trust me, it'll sound great!) because it would be a bit complicated to implement an active crossover. But, as Saurav and some others have reported, highpassing the Eminence woofer does make a significant improvement in the sound.
     
  14. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    Well, even if I do run full range, I still need something to lowpass the subs as the Samson S150 doesn't have any crossovers. Also, I'm probably gonna need phase adjustment as I will have 2 subs. Dampening adjustment would be cool, but isn't needed. Does anyone know a person I could pay to design and build me a unit that I described?
     
  15. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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  16. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    Those will work, but I think Parts Express has them cheaper... and you could also get a little kit from Marchand, with adjustable frequency and a steeper slope, for only a little more money.
     
  17. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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  18. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    Bruce D, that product you linked to is exactly what I've been looking for. Though, I still need to be able to adjust the phase and have a master volume. But I guess those would be easier to make.

    The rest of your post was in intresting read. I'll keep it in mind when me or my dad decides to build a HT system.
     
  19. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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    Well, I found 3 stepped attenuators at marchland. I also need to find a way to adjust the phase on the subs though...........
    Also, after crossover, I'm gonna need to apply volume control to 4 channels of audio, before crossover, I've only have 2. The only stepped attenuator that can used with more than 2 channels cost over 300 dollars in kit form. Can I put in a stepped attenuator before crossover and phase adjustment? I don't want to pay 200 for the SVS unit that can adjust phase and I want to keep the number of components to a minumum as cables aren't cheep.
     
  20. Jonathan T

    Jonathan T Second Unit

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