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Those "Damn Grey Bars" and OAR (1 Viewer)

Chris M

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Messages
487
Okay, I have a 57" Widescreen TV, and a wife who thinks it should be filled up. I try to explain how 4:3 on the TV should have the grey or black bars on the sides to be shown in their OAR. But she claims that we spent so much money on the TV that it should be "filled up"
 

Jeff Leeds

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 10, 1999
Messages
131
Read your owners manual. I setup a 55" widescreen for my step-dad and the Sony manuals warns you not to use those for too long. I use them on my Hitachi 4x3 television to watch some DVDs (they have to be either 1:79.1 or 1:85.1) but it isn't most of the viewing that I do.

I think you're going to have to pick one of those wide-screen stretcher formats and use it. I hate to say it, but after a week at their house I was glad that I still have 4x3 TV until HDTV is the standard. While i do like dvds and own 260 of them and counting, I still watch 95% regular TV and sports and they don't look quite right with those stretch modes...but you'll get used to it.
 

Jacob_St

Second Unit
Joined
Jan 15, 2000
Messages
259
HDTV doesn't sound very good. The grey bars are just too distracting for me and I hate to have to use stretch modes to avoid burn in. I think I'll just skip the entire HD thing until all these kinks are smoothed out. I guess the technology is still a bit ahead of it's time.
 

Chris M

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Messages
487
Hmm... so, the Grey bars are too distracting for you... but the black bars on OAR Widescreen movies on a 4:3 TV aren't? Do I sense bias?

I'm confused. I thought the whole idea of OAR was to watch movies in the format they were made... thus 4:3 movies in actual 1.33:1 presentation and 2.35:1 movies in the full widescreen.

I thought the idea of this forum was PRO-OAR! Doesn't sound like some people want to deal with it when it comes to widescreen TV's... Which, BTW, display DVD's in a much more pleasant and high-quality format than a 4:3 TV does.

Chris.
 

David Lambert

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
11,377
Here's something I've never understood:
Why do the grey bars at the side of a WS TV cause burn-in, but the black bars at the top/bottom of a 4:3 TV do not? Is it the gray color? If yes, then why not make them black?
Why do the TV manufacturers put out WS TV's with this kind of a major problem? Don't they think it's limiting sales from consumers who are worried that their MAJOR MONETARY INVESTMENT in this equipment will be ruined? :eek:
It has been a concern of mine, because I will NOT use those stretch modes to fill up the screen.
Anything that prevents OAR will result in NO SALE.
 

Ernest

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 21, 1998
Messages
826
I disagree with you, your wife is correct. Forget about the OAR on TV and watch network programming that fills the screen. Get used to watching 16 x 9 even if its in a stretch mode. I started network programming in the stretch mode from day one and now I can't watch it any other way.
 

Kyle McKnight

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2001
Messages
2,504
Here's something I've never understood:
Why do the grey bars at the side of a WS TV cause burn-in, but the black bars at the top/bottom of a 4:3 TV do not? Is it the gray color? If yes, then why not make them black?
Why do the TV manufacturers put out WS TV's with this kind of a major problem? Don't they think it's limiting sales from consumers who are worried that their MAJOR MONETARY INVESTMENT in this equipment will be ruined?
It has been a concern of mine, because I will NOT use those stretch modes to fill up the screen.
Anything that prevents OAR will result in NO SALE.
David, the reason that HD sets have grey bars instead of black is to promote an even burn in. On a normal projection TV set, the black bars don't burn in. The part with the picture is actually what burns, while the black bars go unused. It's the phosphorus creating the colors that gets burned. The grey bars are to simulate a picture being shown, so that the whole screen burns in more evenly. If your 4:3 set is a tube, you don't really need to worry about burn in, only on projection screens. This will all be fixed once they start doing like that one Mitsubishi rear projection TV, and use DLP inside. I hope this has made sense.
By the way, I own a Toshiba HD WS set. Watching my "over-the-air" programming, I do use one of the stretch modes. Any DVD's I purchase that are 4:3, such as my TV programs, I watch on my computer. If I decide to watch it on my TV, I watch it with the bars on the side.
 

Chad Gregory

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Messages
630
The scaling feature on the RP-91 automatically puts black bars on the side, allowing you to keep the TV in full mode. I find it much less distracting than the grey bars.

-Chad
 

David Lambert

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
11,377
So if I get a 16:9 TV that is a direct-view tube rather than a rear projection system, then I have nothing to fear from "grey bar burn-in". Right?
 

Kyle McKnight

Senior HTF Member
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Mar 8, 2001
Messages
2,504
Yes Dave, with tube sets, burn in isn't gonna be a problem. More than likely the bars would be black on a tube. Let me know if you find a tube 16x9 set in the USA, I haven't seen any.

Also for those of you with Toshiba 16x9's that have the grey bars...you can change them to black if you really want to (but you loose the advantage of a more even burn). You have to get into the systems service mode. If anyones interested, I can hunt down how to do it again.
 

David Lambert

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Let me know if you find a tube 16x9 set in the USA, I haven't seen any.
Panasonic CT-34WX50: 34" Diagonal Tau™ Series 16:9 HDTV Monitor with 2-Tuner P-I-P / Split Screen
Link Removed
...I've been scoping this one for a while, hoping to pounce on the right price.
 

Andrew W

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 19, 2001
Messages
531
I've the the 57" XBR RPTV. Here's my standard operating procedure:

Almost all DVDs are shown at OAR. This includes 1.33:1 material as well. The ONLY exception is a few Disney DVDs that are 1.33:1. My daughter watches them so much we stretch it to fill the screen.

We have side mattes made of black foamcore for watching 1.33:1 movies.

I don't think you will have a problem with burn in if you turn down your contrast and watch a variety of aspect ratios. Remember the manual is assuming that you will continue to run the CRTs in torch mode as it was shipped.

We don't watch any cable/broadcast TV. (Took the cable box back and saved $720/year.)
 

CharlesD

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 30, 2000
Messages
1,493
The grey bars can be a distraction, especially when the picture is dark. They do allow for a more even burn in if you watch alot of 4:3 programming. My Toshiba WS HDTV only put the grey bars up for analog material, if it is from DVD the bars are black.

I cannot stand any of the stretch modes and do not use them. For most TV I use the the "theater wide" mode that crops the picture to 1:1.78, but only because I mostly don't care about the show enough to worry about OAR. If it is a show I really want to watch I do put it into 4:3 mode with grey bars... luckily most of the shows I care enough about to always watch in OAR are now in WS (e.g. The Sopranos (which is now also on HBO HD anyway), & The West Wing) but ones that aren't I do watch in OAR.
 

Chris M

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Messages
487
Charles, What DVD player do you have? I bet the "digital" material you are referring to is because of your DVD player, not your TV.

Chris.
 

Gruson

Second Unit
Joined
Sep 20, 2000
Messages
494
I own a 65" Mitsu. HDTV, 16x9. All I have to say is that it is worth every penny I spent on it and more.
I rarely watch TV anyway, if I do, the programs are in HD (CSI, Agency, Leno).
I will usually use my 36" to watch 4:3 material in my living room.
The widescreen TV is in my theater room and 95% of the time, I am watching an anamorphic DVD on it. It is just like the movies :)
If you love movies like I do, do yourself a favor and get a 16:9 HDTV!
 

GerardoHP

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
Messages
744
Location
Los Angeles, California
Real Name
Gerardo Paron
Avoid using the grey bars at all cost! I used them all the time to view 4X3 material when I first got my TV until one night I noticed a very, very slight (but to my trained eyes, noticeable) burn-in on the right side. Since then, it's zoom-in or stretch mode all the way, with a few minute-long exceptions.

Also, make sure your contrast is down to 1/4 at the most. If that seems too dark for you, give it a few days until your eyes adjust.

And enjoy your HD and anamorphic DVD's. Tell your wife that's what that TV is for.
 

Kyle McKnight

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2001
Messages
2,504
You sure about this? I sure see a lot of burnt-in Pac-Man arcade games
O.K. Let me state this. If you don't go leaving your TV on for hours upon hours at a time, burn in won't be a problem. Before I upgraded to my WS set, I used to watch about 2 movies in a row. With rear projection sets, it's reccomended that no more than 15% of your viewing time be in 4:3 mode, not sure the average for a direct-view. I know I used to watch letterboxed movies ALL the time on mine, and the picture now is still even. Same with my friends who use tube sets for their theaters, and all they watch on them are DVD's (except for the videogames) and they're even too.
 

TheoGB

Screenwriter
Joined
Jun 18, 2001
Messages
1,744
Burn in cannot occur while watching normal TV on a tube. Burn in occurs when the same image is displayed again and again on the phosphorous of the CRT so that it retains part of the image.

This is a problem from the old computer days when you had high contrast green and black type screens showing one view for the whole day - Pac Man is a similar situation. You should find the maze is burned in but Pac Man and the Ghosts won't be because they are constantly on the move. That's why we have screen savers, though they're pretty pointless these days as Windows is a lot more dynamic than old systems.

I have a tube widescreen and the bars are black.

I don't know about anamorphic 4:3 but some DVDs with 4:3 supplements send some sort of flag that tells my TV to automatically drop into 4:3 mode. I'd guess this must be an authoring package issue but apparently if you have RGB connections to your TV it will automatically make these adjustments for you.
 

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