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This annoying "no insert" trend -- A RANT (1 Viewer)

Jeremy Anderson

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 23, 1999
Messages
1,049
Am I the only one disturbed about the recent trend toward not including inserts in DVD's? I'm not talking about the companies that historically never have (Lion's Gate, for example). I'm talking about the big name studios just not bothering anymore. Last week, it was The Emperor's Club (Columbia/Tri-Star) and this week Equilibrium (Dimension). And apparently this is a practice that is going to continue.

At least with Lion's Gate releases, the chapter stops were usually included on the back cover of the DVD so it wasn't really a big loss. But what if I want to glance quickly at the chapter stops to find my favorite scene? Does it really add so much of an expense to the production of these discs to add a single piece of paper that shows the chapter stops? Hell, throw advertising for other discs on the back of it to make up for it... but at least give me some kind of quick reference to what the hell is on the disc. I don't think I'm asking much.

Where do we go from here? Will a chapter stop insert become a special feature or something you see only in special editions? Will we see "Superbit -- Now with Insert!"? Are the words "Limited Edition Insert" far behind? Will we lose the cover art altogether and just have big black and white generic titles to save on ink? Studios everywhere, I implore you -- Don't screw with a formula that is so obviously working. For my $20, give me the disc, the case, the cover art and an insert... and I'll keep buying. Oh hell, I'll probably keep buying anyway, but I won't be as happy.

Ah... I feel better now that I have that out of my system. Who's up for croquet? :D
 

James Reader

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
1,465
They really need to move to the clear plastic covers like many UK discs are released. Then the chapter stops are printed on the reverse of the insert (and visible through the plastic).
 

Adam Tyner

Screenwriter
Joined
Sep 29, 2000
Messages
1,410
Vanguard uses transparent cases for some, if not all, of their releases stateside. I think they're pretty hideous, but that could just be Vanguard's implementation of the concept.

I dunno, I have to admit that the chapter selection submenus work well enough for me.
 

David Lambert

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
11,377
Am I the only one disturbed about the recent trend toward not including inserts in DVD's? I'm not talking about the companies that historically never have (Lion's Gate, for example). I'm talking about the big name studios just not bothering anymore. Last week, it was The Emperor's Club (Columbia/Tri-Star) and this week Equilibrium (Dimension). And apparently this is a practice that is going to continue.

At least with Lion's Gate releases, the chapter stops were usually included on the back cover of the DVD so it wasn't really a big loss. But what if I want to glance quickly at the chapter stops to find my favorite scene? Does it really add so much of an expense to the production of these discs to add a single piece of paper that shows the chapter stops? Hell, throw advertising for other discs on the back of it to make up for it... but at least give me some kind of quick reference to what the hell is on the disc. I don't think I'm asking much.

Where do we go from here? Will a chapter stop insert become a special feature or something you see only in special editions? Will we see "Superbit -- Now with Insert!"? Are the words "Limited Edition Insert" far behind? Will we lose the cover art altogether and just have big black and white generic titles to save on ink? Studios everywhere, I implore you -- Don't screw with a formula that is so obviously working. For my $20, give me the disc, the case, the cover art and an insert... and I'll keep buying.
[c]





[/c]


Now THAT's what I've been saying all along! Yes!

[rant]Give me inserts or give me...uh, well, not "death", but...I WANT MY FRIGGIN' INSERTS![/rant]
 

Jeff Ashforth

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Messages
209
I'm fine just using the scene selection option. The only time I really use an insert is when they feature flow chart guides to supplements like on the FOTR:EE and many of the Disney Collector's editions.

Cheers.
J.
 

Rob Gardiner

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Feb 15, 2002
Messages
2,950
Personally I just use the arrow keys on the remote to jump around, or the discs's on-screen menus, but I *do* miss the little booklets with the MGM discs. Sometimes a CRITERION title has substantial liner notes, but with 99% of DVDs in general, the insert is just a list of chapter stops. What I would like to see is the return of true liner notes.
 

Chris Farmer

Screenwriter
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
1,496
I'm another who likes his inserts. Cahpter listings are far faster then having to browse through a dozen selection pages with four chapters listed on each. Even if you know about when in the movie a scene occurs, it usually takes several guesses to find the right page, and that doesn't even count DVD's like American Beauty that force you to go through transition animation each time and go through each page of chapters in order. Plus, I like my production notes in the inserts, it's a lot easier to read physical paper then a TV screen that holds maybe one paragraph or so per page.
 

Jeff Kleist

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 4, 1999
Messages
11,267
A list of chapter stops is unneccessary. And with the move to thinpacks they won't have them either.

Only if a booklet has actual content will it be missed.
 

Andy_MT

Second Unit
Joined
Jun 23, 2001
Messages
486
i'm guessing that when a DVD is now given an insert, it can be listed as a "special" feature :D

couldn't customers be given a menu option to list all chapters on the screen (ie replicate the insert) ? would that make both camps happy ? studio saves money on producing the insert and customer gets his/her chapter list.

or is it important to have something physical to fondle while watching a DVD ?
 

Matthew_Millheiser

Supporting Actor
Joined
May 1, 2000
Messages
657
I'm not a big booklet/insert fan, unless they contain actual information/background material for the film. I don't think I've ever used the "Chapter Stop" list on any insert, but I love the extensive liner notes on the Criterion DVDs.

AnimEigo's Lone Wolf and Cub: Sword of Vengeance disc probably has one of the best inserts I've seen in awhile, several pages of information that discuss the history, background, and provide definitions for Tokugawa-era Japan. For novices to the series/era, it's a wonderful addition.

But it ain't got no Chapter Stops! ;)
 

Steve Phillips

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
1,521
I couldn't care less whether or not there is an insert. A booklet with production info on select titles is welcome, but just a little piece of paper with chapter stops listed?
 

Dave_P.

Supporting Actor
Joined
May 20, 1999
Messages
983
Catch Me If You Can has an insert with the poster art on one side and an ad for other Dreamworks titles on the other...but no chapter listings anywhere. :confused:
 

Bruce Hedtke

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 11, 1999
Messages
2,249
The only time I've found an insert "necessary" was for Donnie Darko so that it would cover the awful cover-art used. Other than that, one page inserts are redundant and usually have the same art as the cover, so they don't even have a use as an alternate cover.

Bruce
 

MikeFR

Supporting Actor
Joined
May 16, 2002
Messages
595
Honestly I havent even looked at the inserts of 95% of my dvd's, so no I dont find it disturbing.
 

David Lawson

Screenwriter
Joined
Sep 11, 2000
Messages
1,365
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Real Name
David Lawson
Would anyone know, just how much a color double-sided insert cost?
It depends, of course, on a number of factors, including the quantity, the paper stock, the paper size, the number of cuts required to trim the insert to its finished size, the type of ink (especially metallics), and the printing press itself. None of that takes design costs into account, either.

Still, I would be shocked if the average insert cost more than a quarter. It's probably closer to a dime.
 

Yumbo

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Joined
Sep 13, 1999
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Real Name
Chris Caine
Emperor's Club is from Universal, and yes both Universal and Buena Vista have dropped inserts, in addition to MGM's $15 price catalogue.
 

Jeff Kleist

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 4, 1999
Messages
11,267
AnimEigo's Lone Wolf and Cub: Sword of Vengeance disc probably has one of the best inserts I've seen in awhile, several pages of information that discuss the history, background, and provide definitions for Tokugawa-era Japan. For novices to the series/era, it's a wonderful addition.
They do this on all their titles, have since the company began. A card with chapter stops is not necessary, actual content justifys the inclusion
 

Charlie Essmeier

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 7, 1999
Messages
139
With laserdiscs, they listed the chapter stops on the cover. Oops. DVDs don't have "covers", do they?

Regardless, I have yet to pull out a DVD insert and look at it, so I don't think I'll miss them.

Charlie
 

Brian McHale

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 5, 1999
Messages
514
Real Name
Brian McHale
My $0.02...

IMO, one of the biggest problems with DVDs is how many catalog titles have not been released. I would bet that most movie buffs could list dozens of movies that they'd love to have on DVD, but are afraid will never be released. In order to make us all happy, every catalog title would have to be released (in OAR and anamorphic where applicable, of course).

Even though it's unrealistic to expect EVERY catalog title to make it to DVD, we can at least hope for a good percentage. In order for this to happen, the studios need to find a way to make money on these titles. Maybe deleting inserts only saves $0.25, but if they can find several places to save $0.25 they can afford to charge a little less for each movie. And that means they'll sell more copies, and can afford to release even more catalog titles.

Don't think that a nominal cost savings is of negligible meaning to the studios. When you deal in large numbers, small savings become significant. Is there anybody who actually would refuse to by a title like UHF simply because it has no insert? I know it pisses some people off, but would the studio really lose any sales because of this?

As far as I'm concerned, anything that makesit more profitable to release catalog titles is a good thing.
 

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