This Algebra II is killing me (1 Viewer)

[Bill Catherall]

I've been out of college for 4 years now, and one important lesson I learned was...if you think you'll never use it, chances are you will.
I agree with what Steve said...schooling is about learning how to learn. It's about curing the world of ignorance. It teaches you to open your mind and see that there's so much out there to learn. It trains your brain to be able to store that knowledge and bring it back when it's needed.
I entered college with a know-it-all attitude. I graduated feeling like I still needed to learn more. There's so much out there to learn, and all of it is applicable in one way or another. There's no such thing as too much knowledge.

 

[BrianB]

I've been out of college for 4 years now, and one important lesson I learned was...if you think you'll never use it, chances are you will.

Yup. The programming theory class I hated most & found the least useful at uni is of course the subject I've basically specialised in the last few years.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I'm just depressed reading about the unwillingness of young people to learn the basics because somehow the subjects won't be worth knowing about. They always make the mistake of not seeing the big picture: analytical problem-solving can be taught, it only takes a willingness of the person to want to develop such skills.

Learning is a skill. Things don't automagically come easy to people. If you can't teach yourself "useless" subjects, what makes you think you'll be able to teach yourself "useful" subjects?

Over in the DIY area, we get many questions on what dimensions are needed for a certain target size enclosure and its port tuning. Time and time again, I see people who can't do simple algebra, or apply simple geometrical relationships/formulas. It saddens me.

I'm almost to the point of "if you won't help yourself, why should I help you?"

Sure, some people skate on their family's name, their looks, their inherited wealth, but is their life anymore fulfilling, living in ignorance, always relying on others to do the number crunching, and trusting that they know what you yourself really want? In this day and age, if you leave the number crunching to someone else, they will find a way to fleece you. Ever go buy a car and not know what all the added line items means? Or how the interest payment plan added another year to the loan because you could only afford a certain monthly payment?

The importance of algebra and math in general is that it will give you answers to many of life's challenges and problems. If you fail yourself by not learning math, you will handicap yourself and your future. Are you truly ready for that?

 

[Brett_B]

Someone asked this question on the first page:

What is it that you wanna do in life, Van?

I am still waiting to see what your answer is, Van.

 

[BrianB]

I asked that question, Brett, not expecting to get an answer. Van's young, he's in high school - it's fine if he's got an idea about what he wants to do, fine if he doesn't. Either way, he can't accurately gauge where life is going to take him - none of us can say that about ourselves - so he's got no real foundation to say at this stage that he'll have no need for alegbra 2.

 

[Dave Morton]

As a statistician in a pharmaceutical company that works on phase one pharmacokinetic drug trials, I use math in the following ways every day.

The amount of drug in the blood during a time period is measured at various intervals. This gives us a curve. The total amount of drug over time is measured as the area under the concentration curve, which is the integral. Of course there are various numerical methods to determine this, which we use the trapezoid rule (geometry). In order to control for the variance, I will take a log transform to stabilize the variance. So all the meds you ever take would not be possible without algebra, calculus, etc..

I will agree that solving math problems will increase your overall problem solving skills. If you ever want to become a programmer, you need math skills. Many times you will program equations. How do you think video games work? They are all about algebra.

 

[Brett_B]

Brian,
The reason that I want to know is because of his responses about life after school.

Quote:

So, I don't think that asking him what he plans on doing is asking too much. I mean, he was the one who brought it up, not us. Honestly, what is the point of this thread if he can't give us any insight on what he plans on doing in the future? Why bother responding to this thread at all?
It is just a simple question.

 

[cafink]

instead of the term imaginary numbers, I remember that the term often used was complex numbers, which helps remove the notion that i serves no real purpose.

It's been over four years since I've taken a math course involving imaginary numbers, so I'm not sure about this, but isn't a complex number a little different than an imaginary number?

If memory serves, an imaginary number is simply a multiple of i (the square root of -1), like 8i or 24i.

A complex, number, on the other hand, is an imaginary number plus a real number. 4i+12 or 16i+128, for example.

Again, it's been a while. Is this correct?

 

[Dave Morton]

Carl,

You are correct, sir! 20 + 18i is a complex number, 18i is just an imaginary number. Both have a wide range of applications, mostly with engineering.

 

[RobertR]

I stand corrected.

 

[DaveF]

OK those are all true examples but who REALLY uses it???

You mean, besides:
Business
IT/MIS
Architecture
Construction/Engineering (lots of calculus too)
Logistics/Operations
Computer Science/Programming
playing putt putt or pool
I use math everyday, especially algebra and geometry. (Leila)
psychology and sociology
Ph.D. in Optics
Rocket Scientist for Lockheed Martin Missiles and Space
Computers
All posted before your question. So who uses algebra, besides scientists, engineers, statisticians, statistical psychologists, pool sharks , computer programmers, and Leila? Well, how about:
- you want to figure out the optimum throw distance for your projector
- mechanical engineering
- building a deck
- How much topsoil do you need
- make precice screen size and speaker placement caculations
- statistician in a pharmaceutical company
Yes, many people use algebra and other aspects of math regularly in their jobs. And many others use tools built by users of math.
Of course, there are many disciplines and professions where immediate knowledge of Algebra II is not necessary. If you don't groove on numbers, maybe you would dig being a chef, a musician, a writer, historian, motivational speaker, administrator, lawyer, tour guide, Marine, Coastguard, or many other careers. You're young, and really do have time to find your skills and passions.

 

[Dustin B]

Over in the DIY area, we get many questions on what dimensions are needed for a certain target size enclosure and its port tuning. Time and time again, I see people who can't do simple algebra, or apply simple geometrical relationships/formulas. It saddens me.

This amazes me as well. I really should quit doing calculations for people and make them do it themselves.

Patrick, maybe you should instagate that policy in the DIY/Advanced section. No figuring out port lengths and box dimensions for people anymore. Tell them what they need to do and where to find the info, but they have to do it themselves.

Back on topic, I couldn't imagine not knowing algebra, trig and geometry. I take them sooo much for granted right now. Like Julie said, at the same level I'd consider knowing 1+1=2. It's just something you know and can't imagine not knowing. It's been 5 years since my last calculus course, and I've pretty much completely forgotten how to do differentiation and integrals. I'm sure however, I'll have to relearn portions of it at some point as there have been several occations over the last couple years where I wish I remembered how to do integrals.

 

[DaveF]

I think memorizing equations, particularly for a test, is the dumbest thing in the world. Let computers and calculators do all the damn work and put the equations somewhere in writing.

No. I'm not a fan of memorization, but it is useful. It's like saying learning to spell is dumb, since computers have spellcheckers, and you can look it up in the dictionary. Memorization is useful, even necessary, in life.
And, to repeat others:
Sqrt(-1) = i (or j if you're an EE)
i*b is an imaginary number, where b is some real number.
a + i*b is a complex number, where a and b are real numbers.
And 1 + e^(i*pi) = 0 is a really groovy equation

 

[Van Patton]

Well I've read "The Millionaire Mind" and it was pretty enjoyable but I've also read negative things about that book too. I know that you don't just get rich in a day but I still find that advanced math is only useful in a few subjects but oh well. It's all cool and I learned something from reading that anti-kiyosaki page.

 

[DaveF]

but I still find that advanced math is only useful in a few subjects but oh well

If, by "a few subjects", you mean just "science, engineering, and aspects of business and some arts" then yes, that's exactly right -- just those few subjects
But if you want to be a millionare, then science is not the way to go. Business, medicine, or law are generally more lucrative. And you don't need as much math for those as in the sciences. However, memorization is paramount.

 

[Leila Dougan]

For the record, I work in IT But, that was already covered in DaveF's post. I use it more than I realize I use it, anywhere from laying cables to calculating where the projecter or speakers should be placed in a conference room. Nothing overly complex but useful none the less.
I have my formal education in microbiology and worked as a lab tech for a while. I would use math all the time, in much the same way Dave Morton does. I would often have to compare the growth rate of various strains of E Coli or the rate nutrient consumption of yeast. I'd have to calculate how long it took for a particular enzyme to splice a fragment of DNA or the rate of mutation of DNA in bovine cells exposed to UV light. Half my day was spent calculating various things, most of it involving algebra and calculus. The knowledge of logs and integration was a must. Sure you could do some of it on a computer but it was actually less efficient to do so. When you're involved in benchwork you often keep a detailed, handwritten notebook of everything you did. Calculations are included in here. If you don't know what you're calculating you'll 1) probably get something wrong and 2) lose credibility when its comes time to publish.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Julie K said

And Dome, I hope you were kidding about the imaginary numbers. It's unfortunate about the name, because they are as real as any other number.

Actually, I was.
Seriously, there are uses for imaginary numbers, I just wasn't aware or couldn't think of any immediate reasons as to what those uses were. I'm enlightened now. But I do agree with folks here that the term "imaginary" is awful.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Complex numbers help us gain a grasp of AC power (3-phase power, as well as single phase power), which in turns helps every one of us surfing on the internet.

 

[DaveF]

Actually, I was.

Whew, what a relief
Actually, I like "imaginary" numbers. Who wants to work with real stuff? And I don't want to lose my imagination when I grow older...

 

[D. Scott MacDonald]

Man, when I was in high school I didn't think that I'd ever use math. I also took another another class that I was POSITIVE that I'd never use - typing. This was in 1980.

Well, now I'm a computer programmer working in the 3D world. Algebra, trigonometry, geometry, physics - I'd be no where without it. Next time you play an XBox, PS2, or computer game you need to ask yourself two questions: 1) Would writing these games be fun? and 2) What would I have to know to do this stuff? If you don't want to preclude this from your future, you'll definately need the math.