Thinking of opening a burger place... (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

I didnt know chiken fingers had politics. I like their calendars

 

[CameronJ]

Cameron, what is your past restaurant experience?

Excellent question. Not a lot in recent years. I have the standard experience from high school and college, washing dishes, busing tables, waiting tables, finishing up at the end of my college days as the Asst. Manager at an unprofitable Little Caesars Pizza. That of course was 20 years ago.
I fully recognize that I'm going to have to bring on some experience. Depending on the concept I go with - I'll be looking to hire a Manager or a General Manager to fully handle the operations side of the shop.

 

[Sam Posten]

Interesting. In the tech field we often see entrepreneurs who think of themselves as the 'idea guy' and then they struggle to farm out the work to programmers and designers to put their idea into execution. But I think this might actually have better precedent in other businesses like you suggest, where you in your situation would either purchase the franchise and follow their plans to the letter or design your own place, fund it and be responsible for all the big picture decisions but have a manager responsible for the day to day operations. Does that work out well usually?

 

[CameronJ]

Does that work out well usually?

I think it all comes down to execution. I've seen many businesses (restaurants included) with a "money guy" and an "operations/idea guy". Some work, some don't. Excluding the concept itself (is it actually workable), I think it all comes down to personality and execution.
I think you are describing scenarios where you have an "idea/money guy(s)" and an execution team. This right here is what I think directly correlates to a small business's, regardless of industry, success or failure. I don't think that businesses fail because they have a bad concept, I think they fail because the person with the idea doesn't know how to run a business.
I have a vision on how I think a restaurant should work based on my past experiences working in one, being a customer, and being proficient in "operations" in other industries. Now, is my vision a good one? I don't know, and only time and experience will tell.
I plan on finding someone who has the experience and can tell me whether my vision is reasonable or full of it. I'm always pretty open to criticism, so as long as this person can explain to me why I'm full of it they stand a good chance of convincing me.

 

[KevinGress]

Amen brother. You've got that right. We quit going to Chik Fil A when they started throwing huge money in the wrong direction. But....it's family owned and they can throw money at any group they want. No stockholders to answer to. Doesn't mean I've got to give 'em my money though.

Thanks for the information. I'll be sure to make it a point to support them! Given other businesses' politics, it's a breath of fresh air.
I don't think 'better burgers' is a fad, but from my experience, it also isn't going to be a place that a typical person would visit more than occasionally. In my area I have access to Smashburger, Red Robin and Fuddrucker's (and soon a Chik Fil A ) While I like burgers and could appreciate a 'better burger' I tend to visit fast food more for convenience and would only visit a higher quality place when it's part of the experience, as opposed to 'just getting something to eat'.

 

[BrianW]

1. What do you think of "better burgers" in general? Do you think its a fad?
No. I think "better burgers" are here to stay.
2. What's your favorite burger place? Why?
I like Scotty P's. I also frequent In-n-Out, Culver's, and Hardees. But those are a distant second to Scotty P's('s?) burgers for quality, taste, and service.
3. If you are looking for a burger, do you typically go fast food, Quick Service/Fast Casual, or sit-down?
Fast Casual. However, I love Red Robin -- just not enough to be a frequent customer.
4. What's a good price point for you for a "better burger"?
$8 for burger, fries, and drink in a Fast Casual atmosphere. $9 to $10 if it's really good. But then you're getting into sit-down restaurant territory. BTW: I would never pay that for a burger meal at the other places I mentioned. Though I frequent them for particular reasons (ice cream at Culver's), I don't consider their burgers to be "better" by any stretch of the imagination.
I agree that most failures are due to bad execution rather than elements that are out of the operators' control. (Bad execution can include, however, such things as location choice, which will doom a business regardless of what efforts are put into the business later.)
I'm embarking on my own similar adventure, so I wish you every possible success. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Honestly, I don't know that I would invest a lot of money into opening a restaurant if it'd been 20 years since I'd worked in one. It's a uniquely difficult business -- lots of cash, perishable product, a fairly high risk of untrustworthy employees, etc. Opening a franchise instead of an independent place mitigates some of those issues, but not entirely.
At the very least, you'd be committing yourself to working long hours, 7 days a week for the foreseeable future. If you really have a ton of money and can hire a top-quality manager, you can eventually start taking a day off here and there, but it's still incredibly demanding. And if you can't land a great manager to help run the place, you're in big trouble.
I don't mean to be negative, but I've been there and I know how tough it can be (my wife used to own a restaurant, which I helped with, and my family is still close with the owner of a restaurant that I worked at during high school and college). Of course, it can also be extremely rewarding if you manage to get the place established, but that's another thing that might not work as well in a franchise -- how many people go into their neighborhood chain restaurant as regulars and become friendly with the owner?
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck!

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by CameronJ /t/322165/thinking-of-opening-a-burger-place#post_3946937
1. What do you think of "better burgers" in general? Do you think its a fad?
2. What's your favorite burger place? Why?
3. If you are looking for a burger, do you typically go fast food, Quick Service/Fast Casual, or sit-down?
4. What's a good price point for you for a "better burger"?

I'll give this a shot!

Good luck, Cameron. It's a cut throat market.

I actually worked as an assistant manager for a few years in a local Burger King franchise. This was in the early eighties, however...when I was just out of college...and before I quit to take huge paycut(!) to get into my chosen field of broadcasting. Yes...the money is definitely there if done right. At that time, BK was still marketing itself as "It takes two hands to handle a Whopper..." and "Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce. Special orders don't upset us..." I'm in my fifties now.

I believe as the baby boomers have been aging, there has definitely been more of a demand for quality from fast-food style restaurants...with an emphasis on "healthier" options. I don't think it's a fad...but a demand that is here to stay.

My wife and I did a huge lifestyle change a few years back in terms of diet and exercise. We haven't eaten in a McDonald's, BK or Wendy's since...but HAVE eaten at places like Fuddruckers and Red Robin, etc. That is also probably due in part to our kids aging out and moving on to college (our youngest graduated this year). The ingredients, cooking styles and options are much better at these types of places are much better. We can also include restaurants such as Panera, Applebees, Olive Garden, Ruby Tuesday (mmmm good burgers!), TGI Gridays as places we frequent.

We don't like Five Guys that much because of the high grease quotient and lack of options. We would love a place that served low-fat Turkey and Beef Burgers. Even though Red Robin has a very tasty Turkey Burger, I am always skeptical because you can still get high-fat ground turkey and not be saving all that much in terms of fat content from a regular beef burger.

In terms of price point, I'm thinking a well-cooked, healthy burger with a side or two should fall in the $8 to $12 range (including refillable diet soda). That refillable soda is often a deal-breaker. If a place doesn't have 'em (like a Bruegger's Bagels store) we will often make the decision to go elsewhere.

Good luck!

 

[Mike Frezon]

And I have to agree with Travis. Managing a restaurant is a lot of work...and a LOT of time.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

re: Chik-fil-A, if I declined to patronize every business where some element of the ownership professes politics with which I disagree, I'd probably stay home all the time. Admittedly, the owner of Chik-fil-A is more in-your-face about it than most. (A restaurant that's closed on Sundays?!?!?!)
Come to think of it, that would probably save me a ton of money and give me a lot more time to watch movies!

 

[Aaron Silverman]

And I have to agree with Travis.  Managing a restaurant is a lot of work...and a LOT of time. 

Bickle?

 

[Aaron Silverman]

We don't like Five Guys that much because of the high grease quotient and lack of options.  We would love a place that served low-fat Turkey and Beef Burgers.  Even though Red Robin has a very tasty Turkey Burger, I am always skeptical because you can still get high-fat ground turkey and not be saving all that much in terms of fat content from a regular beef burger. 

I'm a big fan of black bean burgers, actually. The people at Chili's probably think I'm nuts when I order one of their huge artery-cloggers with a black bean patty, but I just like the taste!
A good portabella mushroom on a bun is a winner too, but they aren't nearly as common and tend to be offered in more upscale places.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Bickle?

Ummm. I mean I agree with Aaron. As I do so often.

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That's what happens when trying to do too many things at once...on a slow computer. Waiting for pages to full load before entering a response, etc.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Subway gets a lot of our business now too.

We often wonder when a really good salad fast food shop is going to catch on. THAT would be awesome.

We have one such chain shop nearby...but not real convenient too us (about 25 minutes away). If it was a bit closer we'd be there ALL the time.

Salad Creations

Don't mean to veer off topic. But this is all due to our desire to eat healthier when on the run. It can be a very hard thing to do.

 

[CameronJ]

Honestly, I don't know that I would invest a lot of money into opening a restaurant if it'd been 20 years since I'd worked in one. It's a uniquely difficult business -- lots of cash, perishable product, a fairly high risk of untrustworthy employees, etc. Opening a franchise instead of an independent place mitigates some of those issues, but not entirely.

All fantastic points - and I like to think that I'm not going into this with unrealistic expectations. I've spent a lot of time over the last couple of years thinking about my future, and a lot of that involved understanding the jobs I liked and the ones I didn't. After that, I looked at what made me like/dis-like that particular job. When I add up all the likes - it sure sounded like "buy a restaurant". Luckily, working hard/long hours was never on my dis-likes.

We often wonder when a really good salad fast food shop is going to catch on.  THAT would be awesome.

Salads are tough. I looked into a few of them, and there's some strong appeal due to the message (and the fact that most of them have a lower build-out cost than other restaurants). I just couldn't convince myself that the market is there. We had an independent salad place near us close recently, and the same guy has another outlet in a large downtown food court. I've talked to him a bit, and observed his traffic, and I just couldn't convince myself that it would be a good investment.

 

[DaveF]

Subway gets a lot of our business now too.
We often wonder when a really good salad fast food shop is going to catch on.  THAT would be awesome. 
We have one such chain shop nearby...but not real convenient too us (about 25 minutes away).   If it was a bit closer we'd be there ALL the time. 
Salad Creations
Don't mean to veer off topic.  But this is all due to our desire to eat healthier when on the run.  It can be a very hard thing to do. 

There's a chain in DC. Called chop't, but I haven't tried it yet. But, a salad place requires you like salads, so it's not actually broad appeal, and I'll never get to one when out with my wife. So, I look for good salads at the restaurants we frequent.
Another great burger place we've discovered recently in the if cities is Shake Shack. It might be my fav fast food burger right now.

 

[Jay H]

There is a franchise called SaladWorks that I've seen in northern NJ when I was living there..
http://www.saladworks.com/
Jay

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Cameron,
Where exactly do you live? Most of the nicer franchises are regional, not national.
I'd think a brew pub would be a better bet but that's just me.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

re: Chik-fil-A, if I declined to patronize every business where some element of the ownership professes politics with which I disagree, I'd probably stay home all the time. Admittedly, the owner of Chik-fil-A is more in-your-face about it than most. (A restaurant that's closed on Sundays?!?!?!)

There's a difference, too, between patronizing a business with corporate political allegiances you disagree with, and actually going into business with a coporation whose allegiances you disagree with. There's businesses who support groups and policies I disagree with, and I'll still buy their products in a pinch. But I definitely wouldn't start some ongoing relationship with them on the order of a franchiser/franchisee.

 

[CameronJ]

Cameron,
Where exactly do you live? Most of the nicer franchises are regional, not national.
I'd think a brew pub would be a better bet but that's just me.

Denver.
As much as I love brewpubs - we've got quite a few of them at this point.