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They're building Empire!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mike Broadman, Oct 18, 2001.

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  1. Message #1 of 28 Oct 18, 2001
    Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    OK, let's see who's down with some classic 80s metal: Queensryche!
    I picked up Empire yesterday, which I've heard a million times but didn't actually own. Since I'm listening to them now and have nothing to do at work, I felt like starting a thread for them, so nyeh [​IMG]
    Operation Mindcrime and Empire totally kick ass. I really don't like any of their other albums. They have some good stuff scattered throughout, which is why I have the Greatest Hits CD. Their earlier stuff is a little too 80s cock-rock for me, and their later stuff is shaky at best. Hear in the Now Frontier was appalling, and now that the guitarist left, I don't see much of a future for them. But they sure did put on a good show when I saw them live last summer.
    Mindcrime and Empire are the happy middle where they got it right.
    Geoff Tate easily has one of the best voices in rock ever, possibly the greatest in metal of all time.
     
  2. Message #2 of 28 Oct 18, 2001
    Jason Hughes

    Jason Hughes Supporting Actor

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    Get Rage for Order. I kind of liked Hear in the Now Frontier (although too many filler songs). Q2K sucks. I wish Chris DeGarmo would come back.
    Supposedly the new 2-disc live set they put out is pretty good.
     
  3. Message #3 of 28 Oct 18, 2001
    John Thomas

    John Thomas Cinematographer

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    I saw them while they were headlining for Metallica, during their 'Justice For all' tour. At first, I was eager for Metallica and didn't pay them much attention. After their first song, which I believe was Revolution Calling, I listened intently throughout their 45-minute set. The next day, I went out and bought Operation: Mindcrime. [​IMG]
    Operation: Mindcrime and Empire are their best albums, by far. My interest tailed off after picking up Promised Land, which was mediocre.
    ------------------
    My Top 10 Movies http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum9/HTML/005503-6.html#146
     
  4. Message #4 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    Dave Morton

    Dave Morton Supporting Actor

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    I've seen them 3 times in the past 3 years and they put on a great show. They basically play all of mindcrime and empire and put a couple of other songs from the other albums in for kicks. They know what the fans want to hear.
    I also heard that they are coming out with a dvd and live cd. I can't wait to get it. They are coming to Chicago in November and I've heard they will be finishing up a new album early next year.
    ------------------
    ------ Dave ------
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    MY HT
     
  5. Message #5 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Promised Land, the follow-up to Empire, is easily as good as anything they've ever done IMO. Worth checking out.
    ------------------
    Philip Hamm
    AIM: PhilBiker
     
  6. Message #6 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    John_Bonner

    John_Bonner Supporting Actor

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    To me, Queensryche left the 80's as the "most promising" metal band. They had talent up the wazoo and were building an impressive catalogue of albums each with it's own unique sound. Once the 90's came, that changed. Yes "Empire" was very good and the Operation:Livecrime VHS/CD was very well done but since then...nothing but major disappointment.
    Maybe the airplay and attention that came with "Silent Lucidity" made them focus in a different direction. Maybe the popularity of that song made the record company execs pressure them into writing more "radio-friendly" songs (ex. "I Am I", "Sign of the Times"). I don't know. But what I do know is that I don't hear any "Take Hold of the Flame" or "Queen of the Ryche" type songs on their last few records.
    It's really a shame because these guys had a very strong base of fans who loved what they did in the 80's. If they would have stuck to that style of music, they'd still be among the elite of today's metal acts.
    Around 1992 Dream Theater became the band I really started to get into but I held out hope for Queensryche. Then with the release of "Promised Land" in 1994 it became clear to me that Dream Theater had picked up the ball that Queensryche dropped and ran away with it. They've been my favorites for the last 10 years. I would however love to see these two bands together. One can only hope...
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    JB
    "These go to eleven" - Nigel Tufnel
     
  7. Message #7 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    Brian Perry

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    I'm with you John.
    The best three progressive/metal albums of all time:
    Rush Hemispheres
    Queensryche Operation: Mindcrime
    Dream Theater Metropolis 2: Scenes from a Memory
    Unfortunately, Dream Theater is the only one of the three bands that seems to be on an upswing toward its peak ability. I have lots of hope for Rush's new album next year, though.
    ------------------
    Home Theater Pictures
     
  8. Message #8 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    Jason,
    I have heard Rage For Order, as well as all of their albums. There's some decent material on it, but there's a lot of too-much-over-the-top stuff for me to like the album as a whole.
    Honestly, the only two albums I can really dig are Mindrime and Empire.
    Promised Land is big point of contention. Some consider it the last good Queensryche album, some the first bad one. I can see both sides. There are some great tracks, like "I Am I," "Someone Else," and "Lady Jane." There are also some clunkers: "Disconnected." "Bridge" is a popular one, of course. I don't own the album. "Lady Jane" is a tune I really like and is the only song of theirs I really wish wasn't missing from my collection. I have "Someone Else" on the Greatest Hits CD, but it has the whole band playing, and I like the version on Promised Land with just the piano and vocals better.
     
  9. Message #9 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    John_Bonner

    John_Bonner Supporting Actor

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  10. Message #10 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    Brian,
    Nice selections. People forget about Hemispheres because of the two excellent albums that followed, but this one is so awesome, too. La Villa Strangiato? One of the best rock instrumentals ever.
    Most people list Images and Words as their favorite DT album. I dunno, I like it, but it seemed a bit disjointed, like it was more a collection of riffs and solos then a songs. They fixed that problem on Awake. Scenes From A Memory is just too awesome for words. I really is a Perfect album.
     
  11. Message #11 of 28 Oct 19, 2001
    Darren Davis

    Darren Davis Stunt Coordinator

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    I think Operation: Mindcrime is an awesome album but I've never heard Empire...guess I'll have to go pick it up.
     
  12. Message #12 of 28 Oct 20, 2001
    Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    John,
    I chose Promark747 as it was the stick used by Neil Peart. All other Rush references seemed to be taken already. [​IMG]
    ------------------
    Home Theater Pictures
     
  13. Message #13 of 28 Oct 21, 2001
    Jim_C

    Jim_C Cinematographer

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    OT
    Okay, I have to throw Rush 2112 up there as one of the three best along with Mindcrime and SFAM. I love Hemispheres and Moving Pictures but, IMO, 2112 is a tiny, little, miniscule bit better [​IMG]
    Does anyone know if there's a new Symphony X album in the works?
    Back on topic
    I think that Mindcrime and Empire are definately the best albums that Queensryche put out but Rage for Order is only a short distance behind. So's the self-titled EP.
    We have assumed control, we have assumed control, we have assumed control.....
    ------------------
    You want to upgrade again?!!
     
  14. Message #14 of 28 Oct 22, 2001
    Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  15. Message #15 of 28 Oct 22, 2001
    John_Bonner

    John_Bonner Supporting Actor

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  16. Message #16 of 28 Oct 22, 2001
    Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    John Bonner,
    It seems like you're mixing up the use of the word "progressive," a very common mistake.
    Philip Hamm was using the word in its "dictionary" meaning; that is, progression, or advancing the norm in some way or another. This same term can be used for progressive art, progressive engineering, progressive social work, etc. In the case of music, I believe he meant that a band can grow and achieve "progress" within their own musical idiom.
    The other usage, as John was using it, is the sub-genre of rock music called Progressive Rock, often referring to bands that incorporate classical or jazz music, keyboards, extended song structures, and obstruse lyrics. Since the movement began as a deliberate attempt to advance rock music, the label got thrown onto it. However, most Progressive Rock bands aren't really progressive, and not all progressive rock bands are Progressive Rock bands. In that sense, Progressive Rock is just a label, a genre.
    This sort of confusion is why I hate this term.
    The problem is that, because of the label, people demand that a Progressive Rock band constantly change with each album, always doing something new, and are dissappointed when that doesn't happen. This is especially true with King Crimson, for example, who have changed musical direction so much and have such a varied and rich musical output that people yell at them if an album isn't radically different than the one before it.
    This is demanding the impossible and entirely unreasonable. No other style of music has fans that demand or even expect it. Did we get pissed because Bob Marley released another Reggae album, or Charlie Parker recorded yet another jazz song where he plays the saxaphone? Of course not, it's absurd, yet many demand this sort of thing from Prog bands, just because some journalists in the 60s assigned them with the label.
    So, Iron Maiden didn't change their style much. Of course not, they're a heavy metal band. What do you expect, jazz-fusion jam sessions? Flamenco acoustic guitar ballads? Madrigals?
    It's not that I don't like Queensryche's post-Empire albums because they changed their style, I just don't like the songs. I applaud the effort, not the result. But it's personal taste, and I would never presume to tell them how to go about their musical careers. I just don't have to buy the album if I don't want to.
    [Edited last by Mike Broadman on October 22, 2001 at 10:49 AM]
     
  17. Message #17 of 28 Oct 22, 2001
    Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  18. Message #18 of 28 May 24, 2002
    Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    Mike et al.:

    "They're building [DVD-Audio] Empire!"

    Did you see the news earlier this week that EMI is going to release a DVD-A of Empire? Right on!

    And here I just last month bought the DCC gold CD of Empire . . .

    "Can you hear it coming,"

    Cheers,

    Paul
     
  19. Message #19 of 28 May 25, 2002
    Art C

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    Queensryche has had a live dvd out

    for a while now called live evolution

    and it rocks. very good sound and picture

    ART
     
  20. Message #20 of 28 May 25, 2002
    Wayne Bundrick

    Wayne Bundrick Cinematographer

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    Lots of good songs on Empire. One of my favorites is "Another Rainy Night (Without You)". Radio played "Silent Lucidity" to death but you should listen to it once with headphones, I get a chill when I heard that woman say "Help me" just before Geoff Tate begins the last verse. I wonder if the DVD-A will have the same effect on me in 5.1.

    I think Operation: Mindcrime is the ultimate heavy metal concept album.
     
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