They're building Empire! (1 Viewer)

[Mike Broadman]

OK, let's see who's down with some classic 80s metal: Queensryche!
I picked up Empire yesterday, which I've heard a million times but didn't actually own. Since I'm listening to them now and have nothing to do at work, I felt like starting a thread for them, so nyeh

Operation Mindcrime and Empire totally kick ass. I really don't like any of their other albums. They have some good stuff scattered throughout, which is why I have the Greatest Hits CD. Their earlier stuff is a little too 80s cock-rock for me, and their later stuff is shaky at best. Hear in the Now Frontier was appalling, and now that the guitarist left, I don't see much of a future for them. But they sure did put on a good show when I saw them live last summer.
Mindcrime and Empire are the happy middle where they got it right.
Geoff Tate easily has one of the best voices in rock ever, possibly the greatest in metal of all time.

 

[Jason Hughes]

Get Rage for Order. I kind of liked Hear in the Now Frontier (although too many filler songs). Q2K sucks. I wish Chris DeGarmo would come back.
Supposedly the new 2-disc live set they put out is pretty good.

 

[John Thomas]

I saw them while they were headlining for Metallica, during their 'Justice For all' tour. At first, I was eager for Metallica and didn't pay them much attention. After their first song, which I believe was Revolution Calling, I listened intently throughout their 45-minute set. The next day, I went out and bought Operation: Mindcrime.

Operation: Mindcrime and Empire are their best albums, by far. My interest tailed off after picking up Promised Land, which was mediocre.
------------------
My Top 10 Movies http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/Forum9/HTML/005503-6.html#146

 

[Dave Morton]

I've seen them 3 times in the past 3 years and they put on a great show. They basically play all of mindcrime and empire and put a couple of other songs from the other albums in for kicks. They know what the fans want to hear.
I also heard that they are coming out with a dvd and live cd. I can't wait to get it. They are coming to Chicago in November and I've heard they will be finishing up a new album early next year.
------------------
------ Dave ------
------------------
Link Removed

 

[Philip Hamm]

Promised Land, the follow-up to Empire, is easily as good as anything they've ever done IMO. Worth checking out.
------------------
Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker

 

[John_Bonner]

To me, Queensryche left the 80's as the "most promising" metal band. They had talent up the wazoo and were building an impressive catalogue of albums each with it's own unique sound. Once the 90's came, that changed. Yes "Empire" was very good and the Operation:Livecrime VHS/CD was very well done but since then...nothing but major disappointment.
Maybe the airplay and attention that came with "Silent Lucidity" made them focus in a different direction. Maybe the popularity of that song made the record company execs pressure them into writing more "radio-friendly" songs (ex. "I Am I", "Sign of the Times"). I don't know. But what I do know is that I don't hear any "Take Hold of the Flame" or "Queen of the Ryche" type songs on their last few records.
It's really a shame because these guys had a very strong base of fans who loved what they did in the 80's. If they would have stuck to that style of music, they'd still be among the elite of today's metal acts.
Around 1992 Dream Theater became the band I really started to get into but I held out hope for Queensryche. Then with the release of "Promised Land" in 1994 it became clear to me that Dream Theater had picked up the ball that Queensryche dropped and ran away with it. They've been my favorites for the last 10 years. I would however love to see these two bands together. One can only hope...
------------------
JB
"These go to eleven" - Nigel Tufnel

 

[Brian Perry]

I'm with you John.
The best three progressive/metal albums of all time:
Rush Hemispheres
Queensryche Operation: Mindcrime
Dream Theater Metropolis 2: Scenes from a Memory
Unfortunately, Dream Theater is the only one of the three bands that seems to be on an upswing toward its peak ability. I have lots of hope for Rush's new album next year, though.
------------------
Home Theater Pictures

 

[Mike Broadman]

Jason,
I have heard Rage For Order, as well as all of their albums. There's some decent material on it, but there's a lot of too-much-over-the-top stuff for me to like the album as a whole.
Honestly, the only two albums I can really dig are Mindrime and Empire.
Promised Land is big point of contention. Some consider it the last good Queensryche album, some the first bad one. I can see both sides. There are some great tracks, like "I Am I," "Someone Else," and "Lady Jane." There are also some clunkers: "Disconnected." "Bridge" is a popular one, of course. I don't own the album. "Lady Jane" is a tune I really like and is the only song of theirs I really wish wasn't missing from my collection. I have "Someone Else" on the Greatest Hits CD, but it has the whole band playing, and I like the version on Promised Land with just the piano and vocals better.

 

[John_Bonner]

The best three progressive/metal albums of all time:
Rush Hemispheres
Queensryche Operation: Mindcrime
Dream Theater Metropolis 2: Scenes from a Memory

Brian,
I agree on the bands, but I would choose:
Rush - Moving Pictures
Dream Theater - Images and Words
Queensryche - The Warning
I know these are very "safe" choices but it's the 3 albums I would choose if I could only have 3 for the rest of my life.
BTW - Are you a drummer? I noticed Promark747 in your HomeTheater link.
JB in New Jersey - patiently awaiting Dream Theater's new CD. Currently listening to alot of Symphony X.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Brian,
Nice selections. People forget about Hemispheres because of the two excellent albums that followed, but this one is so awesome, too. La Villa Strangiato? One of the best rock instrumentals ever.
Most people list Images and Words as their favorite DT album. I dunno, I like it, but it seemed a bit disjointed, like it was more a collection of riffs and solos then a songs. They fixed that problem on Awake. Scenes From A Memory is just too awesome for words. I really is a Perfect album.

 

[Darren Davis]

I think Operation: Mindcrime is an awesome album but I've never heard Empire...guess I'll have to go pick it up.

 

[Brian Perry]

John,
I chose Promark747 as it was the stick used by Neil Peart. All other Rush references seemed to be taken already.
------------------
Home Theater Pictures

 

[Jim_C]

OT
Okay, I have to throw Rush 2112 up there as one of the three best along with Mindcrime and SFAM. I love Hemispheres and Moving Pictures but, IMO, 2112 is a tiny, little, miniscule bit better
Does anyone know if there's a new Symphony X album in the works?
Back on topic
I think that Mindcrime and Empire are definately the best albums that Queensryche put out but Rage for Order is only a short distance behind. So's the self-titled EP.
We have assumed control, we have assumed control, we have assumed control.....
------------------
You want to upgrade again?!!

 

[Philip Hamm]

It's really a shame because these guys had a very strong base of fans who loved what they did in the 80's. If they would have stuck to that style of music, they'd still be among the elite of today's metal acts.

I couldn't disagree more. If they had stagnated stylistically they'd be just like Iron Maiden IMO. Maiden came out with a great distinctive sound and never progressed one iota. Every album, every song, sounds the same. I liked them back in the "Somewhere in Time" and "Powerslave" days, but when "Seventh Son" came out it became clear that these guys weren't moving musically at all. The nice thing about Queensryche is that they're willing to go out on a limb and try something ballsy like "Mindcrime" and "Promised Land" instead of playing it safe and playing the same dreck over and over to the same core fans.
------------------
Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker

 

[John_Bonner]

What it comes down to is bands progress or they stay behind.

I do hear what you're saying though. I love progressive music and more specifically progressive metal. To me (again this is my opinion) Queensryche has been hard to pin down. They are progressive to an extent but not nearly as progressive as Dream Theater, Spock's Beard or the aforementioned Symphony X. With Queensryche you don't know what to expect on each record. Is that a bad thing? Sometimes. I know people who (like me) who thought 'Rage for Order' was a brilliant, different, unique record and others who think it was garbage.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that some bands are better off doing what they do best while others take chances and explore musical directions. With "exploring" comes a risk though. You may open yourselves up to a new audience and gain more appreciation from your "progressive-minded" fan base, or you may piss some people off who aren't willing to give your new direction a chance. With Queensryche I feel as though I have given their current direction a chance but I (personally) like the style which made them one of the best metal acts of the mid 80's, early 90's.
------------------
JB
"These go to eleven" - Nigel Tufnel

 

[Mike Broadman]

John Bonner,
It seems like you're mixing up the use of the word "progressive," a very common mistake.
Philip Hamm was using the word in its "dictionary" meaning; that is, progression, or advancing the norm in some way or another. This same term can be used for progressive art, progressive engineering, progressive social work, etc. In the case of music, I believe he meant that a band can grow and achieve "progress" within their own musical idiom.
The other usage, as John was using it, is the sub-genre of rock music called Progressive Rock, often referring to bands that incorporate classical or jazz music, keyboards, extended song structures, and obstruse lyrics. Since the movement began as a deliberate attempt to advance rock music, the label got thrown onto it. However, most Progressive Rock bands aren't really progressive, and not all progressive rock bands are Progressive Rock bands. In that sense, Progressive Rock is just a label, a genre.
This sort of confusion is why I hate this term.
The problem is that, because of the label, people demand that a Progressive Rock band constantly change with each album, always doing something new, and are dissappointed when that doesn't happen. This is especially true with King Crimson, for example, who have changed musical direction so much and have such a varied and rich musical output that people yell at them if an album isn't radically different than the one before it.
This is demanding the impossible and entirely unreasonable. No other style of music has fans that demand or even expect it. Did we get pissed because Bob Marley released another Reggae album, or Charlie Parker recorded yet another jazz song where he plays the saxaphone? Of course not, it's absurd, yet many demand this sort of thing from Prog bands, just because some journalists in the 60s assigned them with the label.
So, Iron Maiden didn't change their style much. Of course not, they're a heavy metal band. What do you expect, jazz-fusion jam sessions? Flamenco acoustic guitar ballads? Madrigals?
It's not that I don't like Queensryche's post-Empire albums because they changed their style, I just don't like the songs. I applaud the effort, not the result. But it's personal taste, and I would never presume to tell them how to go about their musical careers. I just don't have to buy the album if I don't want to.
[Edited last by Mike Broadman on October 22, 2001 at 10:49 AM]

 

[Philip Hamm]

The other usage, as John was using it, is the sub-genre of rock music called Progressive Rock, often referring to bands that incorporate classical or jazz music, keyboards, extended song structures, and obstruse lyrics. Since the movement began as a deliberate attempt to advance rock music, the label got thrown onto it. However, most Progressive Rock bands aren't really progressive, and not all progressive rock bands are Progressive Rock bands. In that sense, Progressive Rock is just a label, a genre.

Yes, things do get very confusing when you're talking about progressive music, huh?
The thing I like is when a band or musician grows musically. That doesn't have to mean changing genre or being "progressive". It just means incorporating different sounds and musical ideas into their work. The Beatles are probably the ultimate example of a group of musicians who are willing to go out on a limb and try something different with their music. Other examples include the aforementioned King Crimson (of which I'm a big fan) and Metallica (listen to "Kill 'Em All" then "And Justice For All" then "ReLoad" - sound the same? Yes, to an extent, but the ideas mature.), U2, The Police, and of course Queenssryche. My example of Iron Maiden is not that they don't turn from their brand of Metal, but that everything stylistically is interchangable from album to album unlike the examples above.
------------------
Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker
[Edited last by Philip Hamm on October 22, 2001 at 11:05 AM]

 

[Paul.S]

Mike et al.:

"They're building [DVD-Audio] Empire!"

Did you see the news earlier this week that EMI is going to release a DVD-A of Empire? Right on!

And here I just last month bought the DCC gold CD of Empire . . .

"Can you hear it coming,"

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Art C]

Queensryche has had a live dvd out

for a while now called live evolution

and it rocks. very good sound and picture

ART

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Lots of good songs on Empire. One of my favorites is "Another Rainy Night (Without You)". Radio played "Silent Lucidity" to death but you should listen to it once with headphones, I get a chill when I heard that woman say "Help me" just before Geoff Tate begins the last verse. I wonder if the DVD-A will have the same effect on me in 5.1.

I think Operation: Mindcrime is the ultimate heavy metal concept album.