There might be another explanation for Tube vs. SS watts (1 Viewer)

[Yogi]

Distortion characteristics of tubes might have something to do with tube amps sounding louder than comparably powered SS amps. Here is another explanation of that phenomenon:

http://www.milbert.com/tstxt.htm

 

[Michael R Price]

A good article, but I would prefer an amplifier that sounds "quieter" for any given sound level.

I guess solid state amps could sound louder too, when not overloaded... because of higher order distortion being more annoying (and noticeable to our ears).

 

[Yogi]

Quieter without sacrificing musicality is what I would also prefer. I was surprised to find my tube MV-55 amp as quiet as my SS Proceed and B&K reference amps. I have to stick my ear to the tweeter in order to hear anything. Even two inches away from the tweeter I can't hear nothing its that quiet. I dont think it gets any better than that.

 

[Craig_Kg]

Vacuum-tube amplifiers differ from transistor and operational amplifiers because they can be operated in the overload region without adding objectionable distortion. The combination of the slow rising edge and the open harmonic structure of the overload characteristics form an almost ideal sound-recording compressor. Within the 15-20-dB "safe" overload range, the electrical output of the tube amplifier increases by only 2-4 dB, acting like a limiter.

This is the critical part of the linked article. Almost all tube amps don't clip but rolloff non-linearly outside the low THD zone while SS amps will be linear with low THD right up to the rail voltage where it will clip (unless some form of soft clipping is implemented). This means that tube amps can be driven beyond their rated power as THD rises gently and in a manner that is pleasing to some. SS amps will clip and sound horrible when attempting to do the same.

Low volume noise has nothing to do with the thread's topic.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Gee I thought I covered this in my reply to the last thread???

 

[Chu Gai]

Nahhhhhhh, distortion gives it that body, that air, that presence, and all that. I didn't see any distortion measurements as the tubes were driven into 'the beyond'.

 

[Craig_Kg]

Gee I thought I covered this in my reply to the last thread???

You probably did but this is another thread

 

[Brett DiMichele]

True

 

[Yogi]

Nahhhhhhh, distortion gives it that body, that air, that presence, and all that. I didn't see any distortion measurements as the tubes were driven into 'the beyond'.

As long as it brings the music alive and as long as it puts the soul back into music it floats my boat After all there is no absolute truth: truth is just a perspective. SS gear inspite of being true to the waveform doesn't put life into music and tubes inspite of being untrue (relatively) to the waveform are ture to the musicians soul and put it back into the music This perhaps belongs in the philosophy forum. But hey didn't all science stem out of philosophy.

 

[Chu Gai]

Jesus Yogi, you've got to stop falling asleep with 'The Matrix' and listening to that stirring dialog on the Star Wars DVDs. If you or I don't like the way music sounds, as far as I'm concerned it's either the performance just happened to suck or it's the recording engineers. Either way, them tubes will keep you warm during the upcoming winter. Let me know if you want to buy my Teflon Coated Cover that you can place above your tubes and make grilled cheeses!

 

[Yogi]

Well Chu, I dont say that I dont like the music with my SS gear its just that I like it better with my tubes. We as humans are a decadent animal. How many times have we indulged in things that are not in our body's best interest and health. I love beer (and I think we all do) even though I know its detrimental to my health but I still indulge in a 6 pack every weekend. Why does it have to be different with any of our other sense organs? If the tubes soothe my ears then so be it. Accuracy be damned Why is it only in audio that people start jumping on the accuracy and the right/wrong bandwagon when ever someone says the 'T' word? That's something beyond me. Any answers to this fundamental question? I'll give it to you if you can answer that.

Also the idea of grilling on the tube cage certainly seems appealing as it does get to grilling temperatures right near the tubes. One question though; could I put my meat right on the tube cage? Do you think the grease falling on the tubes would do them any harm?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Chu Gai]

Fair enough. Beer is not bad for your health. It has many nutrients in it and when consumed with a good NYC pastrami sandwich on rye with mustard provides adequate essentials for humans. Even me. Red meat is good too. As Chris Rock said, it's the green meat that's bad for you. Rheingold is an exception and believe it or not, I once bought a 6pack of Billy Beer. Worse than Rheingold.

I'm not jumping over accuracy or inaccuracy if you will. Those are indeed preferences and certainly the word inaccuracy seems to connote negativity. I kinda thought most of my replies to your general question were pretty direct and sought to answer them or at least provide a series of possibilities to explain this oft quoted phenomena.

In any event, let's disagree about beer because after a 6 pack we won't care anyways!

 

[Scott_N]

Yogi

I got those Ei 6CA7's this past weekend and I have about 50 hrs on them. They sound closer to a 6550/KT88 than a EL34 to my ears. There is more extension in the highs and the bass is deeper and with better control. The midrange is not as seductive though and overall the sound is leaner and more brightly lit. They work great for rock but for jazz, blues and female vocal i'll put the EL34's back in.

 

[Yogi]

Thanks Scott for the update. I think I'll order a quad for myself.

 

[Scott_N]

I plan to order a quad of EH EL34's also and keep the Sovtek's as backups. The fact you can alter the sound is another reason I like tubes over SS.

 

[Chu Gai]

well then wouldn't an equalizer coupled with solid state provide similar benefits without the degradation of tubes?

 

[Yogi]

degradation of tubes?

That's the point Chu. Its the degradation that we love.

 

[Chu Gai]

You are a sadist!

 

[Brett DiMichele]

I need new tubes.. My amps have been out of comission for
months now.. I always seem to spend the money on everything
but what I need.. Not like a Matched Quad of Svetlana 6L6's
are going to set me back that much....

 

[Scott_N]

Chu

A equalizer on a SS amp still wouldn't give you the midrange that tubes provide.