The "Wow, those 80s guys really were musicians!" thread (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Ulmer]

Wikpedia's definitions leave a lot to be desired, and can hardly be classified as definitive. I would never in million years call Def Leppard a glam band despite changing their style to become hugely commercial. Poison, Ratt, Crue, Twisted Sister, sure. Leppard no, Van Halen, no.

My definfition of glam or hair bands usually entailed very little talent packaged in makeup and hairspray (aka style over substance). There are exceptions like Bowie, Cooper and Sweet, none of whom would have fit the glam of the '80s definition anyway.

 

[Brian L]

Glad someone mentioned Extreme.

I never much liked Gary Cherone's vocals, but Nuno's playing was stunning. He could "out Vai" Steve Vai! Their production was also extremely good, and the harmonies and hooks were among the best of the genre.

Brian

 

[Jay_B!]

Ratt, Dokken and Quiet Riot do not belong in that catagory.

 

[Jay_B!]

putting image aside, Culture Club were actually better musicians than a lot of their peers, notably Duran Duran. I cannot think of one "pop" band that infused more reggae into top 40 music than those guys. Most of the singles were blatantly pop, but the album tracks are a different story. It's just easy to bash them because of Boy George's image.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

We can argue all day about which bands are hair metal or not. This is why VH1 is running "Metal Month."

I was saying that Dokken turned into a hair band image-wise, but their *music* (at least their first couple of records) was different from the stuff we usually think of as hair metal. Hair metal hair? Sure. "Quintessential" hair metal? Hardly.

Alone Again is way too heavy to be a "cheese power ballad." Are you sure you're not confusing it with something else?

I'm not sure I understand how anyone could think of GNR as a hair metal band. Crue and Leppard are, strange as it is to say it, both hair metal bands *and* classic rock bands.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Without commenting on Culture Club, I don't think you're giving Duran Duran enough credit. They have some chops. (And in later years, their guitar player was (is?) Warren Cuccurullo (not even going to try and check that spelling), who was a protege of Frank Zappa.)

 

[Aaron Silverman]

On a side note, it never ceases to amaze me how much more I appreciate hair metal today than I did at the time.

Rock in the '80s had a real sense of fun to it that is sorely lacking in the top-40 hits of today.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

I'd agree with Aaron that Duran Duran have the chops. Being a good musician is as much about knowing when/what not to play as it is about playing, and the arrangements found on the first few DD albums are excellent in that regard.

We will have to disagree about what constitutes hair metal, and as for Culture Club and their ilk, they are still in the "avoid if at all possible" category.

 

[Robin_B]

I'd be avoiding the hair bands and metal before Culture Club and their ilk. At all costs

 

[Jay_B!]

regarding Culture Club, I think it's all a matter of age and musical preferences. I was a kid when they were huge, and I loved all the pop music that was out in the 80's, and looking back at it in hindsight over 20 years later, I still LOVE their songs, although Boy George's solo career has been more miss than hit (although he was on a roll in the early 90's with Martyr Mantras and Crying Game).

With Duran Duran, I like some of the early MTV hits, but to me, when they really began to get good was after they lost their teenybopper market. Big Thing was a fantastic album that made the mistake of coming out four years after their peak. Albums like Notorious, Big Thing and The Wedding Album is the incarnation I prefer of theirs, not Arena and Seven And The Ragged Tiger.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Ironic, as I read this thread, "More Than Words" is playing on the radio. Whilst some may view it as a load of mush, that acoustic guitar work, on that outro, is pretty stunning.

Duran Duran with Warren Cuccurullo were the latter-day incarnation; in the early days, it was all about image. I still vaguely remember an interview around the time of The Reflex, John Taylor said something to the effect that when Nile Rodgers was brought on to remix The Reflex's single release, he "cried" when faced with Rodgers's bass playing, and that he couldn't get anywhere near to Rodgers's level. No surprise there, really, Duran weren't great musicians. And before anyone thinks otherwise, I'm a fan.

 

[Jay_B!]

I agree with you Yee-Ming, Duran had some catchy, but very fluffy tracks in the early days, but they didn't really fulfill their potential until they were widdled down and Cuccurullo joined. They were a very good band with Warren, much more than the image/MTV early albums.

 

[Brook K]

I was a fan of CC back in the day and still bust out Greatest Hits every now and then. I don't know how much credit I'd give them for musicianship. Yeah they brought some reggae sounds, but they're not exactly The Police. Boy George has some serious pipes though. His voice/singing ability are what keep me listening.

For some non-metal guitar playing in the 80's, it's all about Johnny Marr with The Smiths. Andy Rourke was no slouch on bass either.

 

[JonZ]

"They may be considered "classic rock""

Well if you looked at it with the car rule, then yes Motley Crue,Def Leppard and any band older than 20 years would be considered classic rock. I dont think thats a stretch, I mean bands like Zeppelin,Sabbath, old Van Halen and Skynrd were considered classic rock during the 80s.

I wouldnt put GNR in there until a few more years pass

 

[Andrew 'Ange Hamm' Hamm]

You can't lump Def Leppard in with Motley Crue, etc. DL was recording hit records in the late 70s when the cock-rockers were still in grade school. 1983's Pyromania is the proto-typical 80s hard rock album. Def Leppard aren't a cock-rock band, they were cock-rock pioneers, and their albums used recording techniques that wouldn't be mainstream for another decade and a half.

You also can't lump GNR in with hair metal, the video for "Welcome to the Jungle" notwithstanding. Appetite for Destruction was a massive shift in musical priorities, and took the entire industry in a completely different direction. The hairspray and androgynous makeup was vanishing long before Nirvana exploded onto the scene.

Don't forget the parallel 80s thrash scene: Metallica, Motorhead, Megadeth. And prog-influenced weirdos like Iron Maiden sold a lot of records, as well...

 

[JonZ]

Well peoples definition of classic rock may differ. Are we talking about bands of significance or bands from " a classic era"? During the 80s, even bands like Truimph, Cheap Trick,Ted Nugent were known as classic rock. I rememeber the term being used and they were constantly played on the biggest classic rock radio station around here all through the 80s.

Yet their contributions to the scene can prob be considered minimal by some.

Yes DL (who was most influenced by Led Zeppelin, the true pioneer "cockrock" band)formed in the late 70s, but Too Fast For Love was released I belive in 81 and they didnt linger very long. MC made it big pretty fast. In 82 I was in the 7th grade, and I was already listening to that album thanks to a older brother who was into the hard rock scene.

As far as the hair bands go, I say Motley Crue were the "leaders" of that scene. When MC went glam, everyone did, even bands like Priest and Ozzy

I think alot of the heavier bands that showedup was in relatiation of the hair band badness. I can remember watching headbangers ball and around 88 or so it got to the point where all you saw were hair bands.

If your taking about classic rock being definited by significant contributions to music, then I agree with you. But I think alot of peopel look at it timewise - so you may hear peopel refer to Motley Crue, Dokken, hell even Loudness as a classic rock band.

I recently listened to a few old Twister Sister songs from Under The Blade era after not hearing those songs for 20 years and was suprised! Talk about about "selling out".

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Priest had led the way with many fast tunes, Accept had broken the speed barrier with Fast as a Shark and Motorhead were dinosaurs long before either Metallica or Megadeth came around. Iron Fist came out around the same time as Metallica was releasing its first demos, and of course Megadeth was another year away before Mustaine left Metallica. Exodus was also emerging on the SF scene around that time. Maiden were already considered gods by some by then.

 

[Jay_B!]

regarding GNR being too recent to be classic rock, here is the DEPRESSING truth.

Appetite For Destruction is as old today as Led Zeppelin's first few albums were in the late 1980's :frowning: Actually, it's now been thirteen years since even "The Spaghetti Incident" came out, so in 1988 terms, that would've been 1975.

time really flies, I wonder if the fact that the 1980's were documented by MTV makes it harder to accept how much time has passed.

 

[JonZ]

I remember seeing Welcome to the Jungle video for the first time in late summer of 87.

"so in 1988 terms, that would've been 1975."

Right. And how many people in 1988 considered Rush, Yes, Pink Floyd and whoever else had a album out in 1975 to be classic rock? Just about everybody.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

STOP ALREADY!!! I'M NOT THAT OLD!!!!!!!!

Am I?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!



A combination of the two, really.