The Value of Criterion (1 Viewer)

[Brian Thibodeau]

This brings up a whole 'nother issue, and one that no one will likely ever be able to do anything about. The critical reception to many of the films in the Criterion collection, both at the time of their release and in subsequent years, has undoubtedly contributed to their cache as socially and culturally important motion pictures. So in that sense, Criterion may indeed pay more for at least some of the films they release, since the licencors KNOW Criterion will pay the price (at least for a LIMITED time, if the number of OOP titles is any indication). This is still an arguable justification for the inflated price, since the technical replication and packaging costs are no different than that paid by Blue Underground, Fantoma, and so on. Outside of the acquisition costs, which are still substantial even for many cult films even if they are lower than those paid out by Criterion, these other companies put just as much care AND MONEY into the restoration, extras and packaging for their films as Criterion. If the only major financial difference, then, is the cost of licencing the film and a likely wholesale increase in the cost of replicating more discs, it would be in Criterion's best interest to lower the price of their products, sell a great deal more copies to both fans and newbies and increase profits. But I suppose they'd consider that cheapening their name.

And not every film in the Criterion Collection cost them an arm and a leg. THE BLOB? CARNIVAL OF SOULS? FIEND WITHOUT A FACE? THE HARDER THEY COME? LORD OF THE FLIES? SLACKER? MAN BITES DOG? THE KILLER? HARD BOILED? The Warhol Horror films? SALO? Admittedly, that's just a few, but there are others. And the presence of films like THE ROCK, ARMAGEDDON, TENENBAUMS, RUSHMORE, CHASING AMY, TRAFFIC and a few other Hollywood Studio possessions on those lists speaks less to a need on the part of Criterion to immortalize these recent films in their collection then it does to the need for some Hollywood studios to use the collection to add a cache of credibility to movies that have not yet withstood the test of time. In such instances, one wonders if special licencing deals are not the order of the day. We know it's the case with Disney, at least.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I'm happy to spread the bad word about dvdplanet.com whenever I have the opportunity - I suggest you stay away. DVD Pacific has about as good prices.

About the Criterions, I'd certainly welcome lower prices. But I'll most probably keep on buying quite a few of their future releases even with their current "pricing structure".

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Strangely enough, my collection of ~100 Criterions doesn't include a single one of these titles. I like to believe that I'm quite good at picking my titles...

 

[WillardK]

Really... into ALL of their releases?
The difference with Criterion is their dependability. They're not perfect but their record is more consistent than any other and that has to be worth something.

Here's an admittedly subjective litmus test for dvd supplements: are they worth viewing/hearing again? For myself it's a very special occasion to find such supplements on a non-Criterion disc. I've yet to see a Blue Underground disc that would pass this test. Wellspring did a bang-up job with their Fassbinder supplements when included, but their transfers varied with compression problems on some.

Same point as I made earlier I guess: Criterion is reliable and that alone is some (but not complete) justification for pricing, as it is for other types of goods.

Best value for the dollar? Without question the best value I've found is a very non-Criterion set of 50 Horror films from budget Treeline. Transfers vary wildly, most OAR but not all and not an extra to be found... but at 35 cents per film (with coupon) it's a bargain!

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

As you say, that litmus test is still subjective and depends on the person doing the viewing. I will agree that the supplements on many (but not all) of my Criterions would be worth another view (particularly BRAZIL, IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, BLACK NARCISSUS and a few others), but there are supplements, ridiculous as they are, on certain Something Weird discs that I never get tired of watching. Same goes for stuff on Blue Underground titles. Sometimes the appreciation for a film, which not everyone will share, dictates whether the extras are viewed more than once.

I will concede that Criterion has been more consistent than most companies in their approach to practically institutionalizing their acquisitions on LD and DVD over the years, and their reputation (and name) probably makes a lot of licence holders hold out for inclusion in the collection, while at the same time holding out for more money. Criterion was fortunate to start their practise early, leaving these other, newer companies digging a little harder to find classics and cult classic to fill their catalogues. I still just fail to see where any of this justifies Criterion's prices. I still think they'd sell more at lower price points and more than make up for the drop without scotching their reputation.

And I'm really beggining to suspect their not the poor little indy everyone wants to make them out to be: they've been doing this for the better part of two decades! Of course, without access to their financials, I guess we'll never know.

 

[Julian Lalor]

Well, BFI don't exactly stuff their DVDs with extras. The BFI Rules of the Game has a 40 minute making of and an only OK transfer. The Criterion has a vastly superior transfer, and vastly more extras. Le Cercle Rouge is another example, except the BFI disc came out after the Criterion, so there's really no excuse for the limited extra's there, if, as you assert, they work with Criterion.

The BFI has some great titles, but I've yet to see a transfer that's better than the Criterion counterpart; indeed, I've yet to see a really good transfer of any of the films I have on DVD (and there are certainly better transfers out there - I just picked up the R4 Yojimbo which puts the BFI disc to shame).

 

[jason:g]

The main beef I have with UK discs is the ugly Rating logo that every UK DVD MUST always include on their cover/packaging. The Rating (ugly red circle) is - I repeat - VERY UGLY.

 

[Jon Robertson]

They certainly bloody do!

There are tons of barebones discs in their catalogue with appallingly high £19.99 RRPs, usually with burned-in subs for foreign language titles and no restoration work done to them whatsoever (the Kurosawas, the Otto Premingers, the Viscontis). To say the BFI's DVD output is better in quality and value than Criterion's is laughable.

 

[John Hodson]

High price, the fact that they very rarely offered at a decent discount and inconsistency in presentation (actually, IMHO, it's a surprise when a BFI disc actually comes up to 'Criterion level'; which, for a Brit, is depressing) are the main reasons I have so few BFI discs in my collection.

I may grumble about the price but for presentation - transfers, extras, packaging, even menus - in the main I have no qualms when purchasing Criterion. And in real terms, as DVD prices have tumbled in recent years, they are becoming more affordable too (if you scout around!)

I try to look at this way; I may be paying double what I'd be paying for an equivalent extras stuffed release of the latest 'watch once' blockbuster. But my thang is classic movies, and for the pleasure they give me - over and over again - Criterion discs are a steal.

 

[Lew Crippen]

My experience with DVDPlanet has been quite good. I have never used DVDE Pacific so I can’t make a comparison.

Overall, I’ve probably bought about 150-200 DVDs from DVDPlanet and they have not lost an order and always shipped in a timely fashion. I have never had any complaints about the condition of the DVDs when they arrived.

I consider their prices reasonable if not always the best available. I do like the idea that their Criterion prices don’t vary—I don’t have to think about preorders, as it is always 35% discount.

This does not mean that any negative experiences you may have had are not valid.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I had a very good experience with DVD Planet as well for quite a long time and probably 50 orders or more. If a problem doesn't occur during a "buying experience", there's really nothing to complain about. Whenever a problem does arise, however, is when you learn if the company has good customer service or not. I experienced a total lack of CS over a period of several months starting late last summer. Eventually I got no response to my numerous faxes and emails, no excuses.

This may have improved over the past few months for all I know, but they've lost my business now. Any "buying experience" is all right as long as no problem occurs. But if you have a problem, I suspect that DVD Planet is not going to take any part in solving it. Unless they have indeed improved lately.

It's going to take quite a bit of convincing for me to try them again. DVD Pacific has almost as good prices on Criterion as DVD Planet has.

There is a thread about DVD Planet in the retailer feedback forum.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Thanks Lars, I’ll check out the thread. I’ve never had to present a complaint, so I’ve never had any customer service issues.

I will say that the one experience I had with Amazon was very positive. They addressed the problem promptly and with no hesitation. Then again perhaps that is just a part of the price one pays.

 

[Zen Butler]

I too have had nothing but a good experience with DVD Planet. I also frequent their brick and mortar store, which is down the street from my work. Since this is a thread about Criterion, they have the most comprehensive selection of Criterion than anyone around this area. The staff is not always the most knowledgeable, but I'd say passable. A very tranquil store and nice selection. I get lost for hours.

Bummer, you haven't had the same experience.

 

[Brook K]

And I also haven't had any trouble with them and am about to order the new Ozu from them.

From DVD Planet, a Criterion costs either $19 and change or about $26. That is really only $3-$6 more than a big studio or BU, Anchor Bay, Fantoma, etc release and for me - given the general quality of transfer and extras, well worth the relatively few extra $$.

I feel the pain of those living outside the US that can't get the same discounts. It's why I don't own any Japanese discs and relatively few UK ones (especially with the current exchange rate). I think I paid in the neighborhood of $17-$20 US for my Tartan Bergman discs and while they have great transfers, there are only a couple of book excerpted text extras most of which come from "The Magic Lantern" which I already own.

 

[Jon Martin]

But none of those are particularly rare films, all were on VHS at sell through pricing.

Blue Underground puts a lot of work into restoration, yet they have such a tiny market compared to Criterions better known library that it doesn't make sense that they are able to charge what they do and Criterion isn't. I've only bought one BU title, but countless Criterions.

 

[Zen Butler]

There is a certain class in the way Criterion handles and presents its' titles. I came to love it back in the days of laser disc and it has just carried over. I think they are a tremendous value. The restoration of Children of Paradise alone offers some fine defense. There are some other companies offering nice, classy presentation. New Line Platinum comes to mind, e.g Se7en, which ran me in the neighborhood of $22-$24.

So my opinion, in short, would be it's Criterion's presentation of most of its' titles that justifies the purchase.

 

[Joel Vardy]

I have quite a few Criterion titles in my collection. Lately, I've been waiting for discount specials, like the 20% summertime sale DDD ran in June. I took the opportunity to get my Criterion fix during the sale (at $23 shipped). Considering this represents a couple of bucks premium over other studios it seems a reasonably good value for mostly obscure titles that other studios seem to ignore.

Joel

 

[Rob Gardiner]

VHS. . . I remember those! Back in the olden days.


I'll happily buy a VHS of a beloved film if it is available no other way, but if there IS a DVD, then the VHS is in no way a suitable substitute.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Interesting discussion.

I own 24 Criterion Collection DVD's. I am quite happy with the majority of them.

That being said, I agree that they are slightly overpriced. As someone else stated, the Warner 2 Disc Special Editions are very impressive and are a better bargain.

However, Criterion has some of the classics that I just HAVE to own, almost regardless of price! It could definitely be worse.

Re: DVD Planet- I have been a long time customer. They were bought out by another company a while back. Their orders are no longer shipped from California. I have ordered from them 3 times since the change in ownership, and I have NOT been impressed! Wrong order sent once, and all three orders took too long to mail out, and way too long to get here.

Based on this experience, I have resorted to only shopping at their Brick and Mortar store, which is quite nice. As Zen stated, they have an excellent selection of Criterion discs in their store, and their staff is fairly knowledgeable. Combine that with the best prices, and I wind up buying the majority of my Criterion discs there (in person).

 

[jason:g]

After the initial few months of release Warner reduce their DVD prices by so much. The DVDs depreciate fast. They are incredibly good value when you buy them at the lowest price (about a quarter of the initial price).