The Value of Criterion (1 Viewer)

[Marc Colella]

I think I remember the Canadian distributor being Vid Canada

 

[Dan Rudolph]

I agree about the prices. I have 29 or so Criterions, except for Chasing AMy, all bought used or on sale. Thee are several dozen more I would have if they were priced more in line with regular DVDs, and I'd certainly be more likely to buy them new.

 

[Tim_Prasuhn]

Not to sound like a broken record or anything, but a lot of people are making good points. Some of Criterion's titles need to be priced at a premium in order for the company to make back its money from the finding/restoration/liscencing of said films. I happily pay 30 or 40 bucks (though with some small regret when it blows my monthly DVD budget with two movies) for the loaded DVDs Criterion puts out for films other companies would only give passing, barebones treatment, if they'd even release it at all.

On the other hand, there are titles that don't need to be restored, are easy to track down (if still unavailable commerically), and don't need massive sums of cash to liscence. Said titles should not be at the 40 dollar range Criterion charges for a good deal of their product.

My problem with Criterion is more the fixed pricing structure they have. Its an okay price for those rare films that need a LOT of work, but for those that they just need to transfer to DVD, it's just to damned expensive. 40/50 bucks for Spartacus or Solaris is cool and worth it, considering the packages and work that went into things, but for say, Armageddon or The Rock, 40 bucks is waaaaay to much to be charged for something they just need to transfer to DVD.

The Criterions I Own:
Brazil
by Brakhage
Dead Ringers
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Naked Lunch
Picnic at Hanging Rock
Robocop
Royal Tennenbaums
Schizopolis (My personal favorite so far)
Silence of the Lambs
Solaris
Spartacus
Straw Dogs
Time Bandits
Traffic
Wrong Men and Notorious Women- 5 Hitchcock Thrillers

I'd own about 100 more titles from them if I didn't have to shell out 40 bucks for what is essentially a blind buy (i've already picked up the DVDs from them that i've seen previous to owning)

 

[Terry St]

I have to agree that Criterions are especially overpriced in Canada. Stores and online retailers that normally trounce U.S. prices for almost everything universally charge higher prices for Criterion discs than most american e-tailers do. I order all my Criterion disks from the U.S. because of that.

 

[Ravi K]

I don't own a lot of Criterions because I'm a student and can't afford to buy every title I want. However, I did find Rules of the Game used for $26.99 and I figured that was the cheapest I would find it. There are a few like The Leopard and Battle of Algiers that I plan on buying eventually.

 

[andrew markworthy]

A lengthy refutation of this argument has already been given, but it's perhaps also worth pointing out also that if you live in the UK and use real retailers rather than recommended retail prices, Criterions are considerably more expensive than the Brit discs, and that allows for a very favourable exchange rate. Also, having extras doesn't necessarily mean that the extras are any good. I don't want to be flamed, but a lot of Criterion extras are a snoozefest, and many of the commentaries whilst excellent as essays do not match the picture particularly well. Furthermore, Criterion are not necessarily tops at releasing titles by artistic directors. E.g. Tartan has released a bigger collection of Bergman titles than Criterion, including some highly uncommercial early movies.

A lot of the justification of Criterion on these pages makes it sound like they're unique. They're not, pure and simple. I think it's also worth stressing that many other companies besides Criterion carefully search for good prints and try their level best on limited resources (e.g. in the UK, Hong Kong Legends and Tartan are two cases in point). This doesn't mean Criterion are bad - far from it: they produce some excellent discs. But a sense of perspective will show that they are not the only people in the marketplace with good quality products. But other companies are generally cheaper.

 

[Marc Colella]

I agree to a point. There are some Criterion discs I own which have some great extras, but there are a fair share that aren't very good. I think people are biased towards Criterion and give their extras higher scores than they deserve in many cases.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

This fact alone, which I tend to agree with based on some of the extras (and lack thereof) on my own discs, puts Criterion in league with just abuot any other distributor. They all put out deluxe sets, barebones sets, sets with amazing extras, sets with unanimously derided extras, sets with questionably useful extras, etc. When a disc from another company has about the same number of extras, and benefits from the same loving attention in its treatment, and costs about half as much as a Criterion, I'm far more likely, after the appropriate amount of research, to spend my "blind buy" money on it. As I'm someone who doesn't mind dropping a little money now and again on films I haven't seen (but have heard alot about), I'm extremely confident that were Criterion to drop their prices to within the range of virtually all other American DVD distributors, my collection would probably grow five-fold, if not more.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Tartan and BFI as good as Criterion?

 

[Thomas T]

I find this thread a real hoot! All this complaining about Criterion being "overpriced" when compared to other DVDs. C'mon guys, give me a break.

Yeah ..... and Rolls Royces, BMWs and Mercedes are all "overpriced" when compared to Fords, Toyotas and Hyundais, too.

For those of you declaring the Warners 2 disc special editions are just as good and at cheaper prices, that may be so but Warners is part of the massive Time Warner empire with tons of money at its disposal, Criterion is a small indie company.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Most other DVDs are a "better value" than CC, since you can get two or three of them for the price of one Criterion. In general, though, I think the majority of my ~100 CCs are "worth more" than most of the others. Whether or not they're really worth twice as much or more can be hard to say. I think some certainly are while others are not. The $30 single-disc editions with no or practically no extras could in most cases be considered overpriced. The $40 single-disc editions as well, unless the extras are really great. They could probably knock off $10 on both of these categories. The $40 double-disc CCs are usually worthy of a high price, IMO, but there are exceptions. Most of the sets priced at $50 or more are so special that I have no problem with the price. Contrary to one previous poster who used the word "snoozefest", I tend to think that the extras are generally better and more "substantial" than on most other DVDs, but we may not have seen a lot of the same Criterion editions.

I haven't been interested in many of Warner's 2-disc sets so far, but the ones I've got are great and admittedly a better value for money than CC.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

Yet another comparison featuring expensive cars. Criterion's are not the BMW's of the DVD world. BMW's, Mercedes and Rolls Royce's are proven to be better designed, engineered and built than the vast majority of ubiquitous product put out by Chevy, Chrysler or Ford. The materials are better. They drive better. And with few exceptions (though there are some), they last longer. If I had the money, I'd probably drive one longer than any car I've owned. Even Japanese imports rate higher, and are increasingly built better, than the majority of American cars. The point is, DVDs are not like cars. The films contained on DVDs are open to subjective opinion as to their merits. Always will be. Cars on the other hand, can be objectively tested and found to be superior.

Criterion discs are little plastic discs in little plastic cases just like every other DVD on the market. The content is only better if someone thinks it's better, and that's subjective opinion either way. Criterion wants people to believe they're getting the Rolls Royce of DVDs, abd people believe that and the price reflects that. Still doesn't mean it's a fair system.

Just wait. Other companies are starting to get their hands on important world films, and they're giving them every bit the treatment that Criterion does. And the prices are still in line with the current range: $15-$25, give or take. Those companies may also have to release old educational films and sleazy, gory horror films and genre pictures to supplement their income, but they represent serious competition over the long term, particularly Fantoma. Now that it's clear Criterion licences its films and extras to Korean companies who sell them for much more competitive prices, it's only a matter of time before their bottom line gets dented and they'll have to start dropping the suggested retail prices of newer titles.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Absolutely right - one lot are chiefly bought by rich folks for the label, the others by people who have to work for their money.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Sure, go ahead. I've got two of their "Film Classics" books (Paglia's "The Birds" and Bird's "Andrei Rublev"). It's good stuff, but it hardly invalidates Criterion's efforts. The new scholarship Criterion affords many films they present on DVD is every bit as good as the BFI's, and arguably better.

And you also know that Criterion brings many films to the theatrical screen, searches out best/lost film elements, digitally restores classics, etc. One needn't go much further than "La Grande Illusion", "The Passion of Joan of Arc", "The Leopard", "The Rules of the Game" to begin to comprehend the significance of their work. DVD output for them is also tip of the iceberg.

As for Tartan, love the Bergmans, but these guys are otherwise the Fox Lorber of R2 DVD.

 

[andrew markworthy]

And they finance films, film festivals, have a central resource for film scholars as well, do they?

Plus, several Criterion releases have been collaborations with the BFI. The teeny weeny problem is that BFI doesn't charge premium prices for its product.

 

[WillardK]

Of the labels mentioned that I'm familiar with, imo Criterion is the most consistent. It's very true that labels with a much worse reputation have put out packages every bit as well done (even in this 'Criterion bashing allowed' thread, no one will dare mention Wellspring whose Fassbinder Bitter Tears disc easily rivals Criterion).

From what I've seen, Fantoma comes close to Criterion in quality consistence including some transfers that are amazing, with extras that are worthwhile (though they sometimes suffer from the redundancy other labels are often guilty of, something Criterion regularly avoids). Fantoma's catalogue is more niche oriented with little of late besides the Fassbinder and upcoming Anger set that I personally find of interest, but what they do they do well. It's worth noting that Fantoma's pricing has only recently been reduced from a near Criterion scale. Possibly the worst thing about Criterion's aura and status is that they will be the last label likely to consider adjusting their pricing. I think their pricing is becoming less and less reasonable as the market changes.

When I finally ask myself, which label would I like to see release one of my favorite films... the answer is still Criterion with Fantoma as runner-up. Overpriced, worth it for favorites, but becoming less so (I've never thought they were worth collecting for their spines or even film 'discovery,' which can be more efficiently done through a local library or rental).

 

[Marc Colella]

As others have pointed out numerous times, there are other labels with a smaller following who put out good stuff for a cheaper price. So the argument of Criterion's pricing being fully based on them being a "small indie company" doesn't fly.

 

[Jon Robertson]

Well, it does, because one should take into consideration the calibre of films Criterion deals in.

Yes, Blue Underground may put out a packed restored special edition of VAMPYRES or DEATHDREAM for $20 RRP, but how much do you think it costs to license a little cult film like that compared to, say, THE 400 BLOWS or TOKYO STORY?

Aside from the films itself, the costs of gaining access to the best quality early-generation elements (rather than just accepting an already-completed telecine master from the licensors as part of the deal) to make a new high-definition transfer from is a major financial headache too. They delayed the DVDs of LA STRADA and THE RULES OF THE GAME for several years while they tracked down the best possible elements to transfer from, and both discs are simply astounding quality in comparison to what's come before.

 

[Michael K Hill]

This is true when you are speaking of the construction of a DVD. However the real point is Criterion has a reputation for producing supplemental material that isn't available anywhere else.

As examples I would include the cast commentary on "This Is Spinal Tap", Johnny Depp reading the correspondence between himself and Hunter S. Thompson on "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", and the amazing wealth of extras on Terry Giliam's brilliant "Brazil".

They also spend time and money on film restoration - such as the incredible work done to restore "The Third Man"

That is how Criterion has established itself as the Cadillac of DVD's.

It's not the shiny discs, it's what's on them.

And for anyone who doesn't want to pay $40 for "Spartacus"
it's available on dvdplanet.com for $32.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Here's another argument that hasn't been brought up yet:

CRITERION makes their pricing decisions internally: they don't base their prices on what other studios are doing.