The Value of Criterion (1 Viewer)

[Randy A Salas]

But distributed by the DVDs' co-publisher, Buena Vista Home Entertainment.

 

[richardWI]

and one more thing:



If enough people agree that a film is a classic, it's not an arbitrary label at all. In fact, the only way a work can be labeled a classic is through consesus. If Criterion labeled Legally Blonde 2 a classic, most film lovers would seriously question the company's sanity.

There's nothing arbitrary about the labels Criterion gives their titles. Most film lovers would agree with Criterion's descriptions of their titles.

 

[Randy A Salas]

There is when it uses its standard label--"a continuing series of classic and important contemporary films"--for things such as the TV show Fishing With John, the music-video collection of the Beastie Boys and the popcorn flick Armageddon. They are surely entertaining and of subjective quality, but none truly fits Criterion's label, which is what raises the accusations of its being arbitrary. The implication is that whatever it releases must be films that are classic or important and contemporary, but that's not the case with an admitted handful of titles in its catalog.

To get back to the original post, one doesn't have to spend $40 to get classic films with "Criterion quality." Warner's two-disc special editions and Paramount's Once Upon a Time in the West prove that.

But there's little doubt that when one does spend the money to buy a Criterion release that he or she is getting a premium presentation of a deserving work.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I used to believe this but I'm really not sure anymore. As someone else said, Blue Underground releases stuff that makes the rarest Criterion title look like TITANIC. BU deals to a very small group of fans and yet they give the great V/A, uncut as well as very good extras. I can't say which company but a horror/cult label remasters everything they release and always add extras yet the biggest seller in their career has sold around 2000 copies. To me that means some of their smaller films might have only sold 1000 copies yet it was anamorphic, uncut and featured extras. The Euro film market is quite high nowdays as well.

I personally don't mind paying Criterion prices for a film I love. I think I paid around $60 for SPARTACUS and I would have paid $100 more for the treatment it got. I would have gladly paid $100 for GIMME SHELTER. However, there are at least 50 Criterion titles that I haven't seen but would like to yet there's no way I can do that due to the price. As I said earlier, a $40 SE and a $25 movie-only edition would mean more sales.

I know smaller companies like Blue Underground, Synapse and Shriek Show need blind buys as well as the core fan group buying them. It seems Criterion would like to get those blind buys as well but that's going to be hard due to the price. I think that's the main reason so many of their titles are turning into bootlegs on Ebay.

 

[Jon Martin]

Criterion is indeed a great company that puts out quality DVDs. Yes, they may be overpriced at times (and I was also one of those buying their $100 laserdiscs, but the market pricing has changed), but if you are a fan of the film, you aren't likely to be disappointed.

Not all of their titles are perfect though. I've rented some that weren't that great, qualitywise. And, for many, their titles are a bit too Film 101, films we may have seen before.

The problem is, so many people develop this cult like attachment to them, feeling the need to buy everything they produce. No matter what the film, if they have seen it or not, they will buy it. They spend hundreds to buy an out of print DVD just to get the spine number for their collection rather than caring about the film itself.

It sort of cheapens the company, with people buying whatever they produce, no matter what the quality, what the price, what the extras, just to get the spine number. It tells Criterion "These bozos will buy whatever we produce, or jump off a bridge if we tell them to so lets just release this without anything special."

 

[Chris Bardon]

Well, I know that my Criterion Fear and Loathing and Brazil are two of the best DVDs I own. Brazil is the original uber-SE release (3 discs before 2 was the norm), and not only has the great documentary and commentary, but the crappy Universal cut included as a "curiosity". Fear and loathing is one of the best SEs that I've ever seen, and is worth getting for the commentary tracks (expecially HSTs) alone.

That being said though, I don't think I'd shell out that much for Traffic, and although I considered Spartacus, it's just not worth the $50+ CDN for me. Same deal with Naked Lunch-I'd like to see it, but I'm not spending $55 on a blind buy. Of course, I did buy that Brazil disc blind...

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

Although I can't imagine a majority of people actually buying up the complete collection just to get the spine numbers, I do believe many people, particularly those new to film collecting and based on my months reading HTF threads, will be misled into thinking that if it's on Criterion, it's a must-see. In most cases, this IS true, but such thinking applies across the board, and across the board there's a much more consistent pricing structure.

I have a collection of just over 2100 DVDs. I own approximately 15 Criterions. If their prices were cheaper, I know both I and a lot of the posters on HTF would snap up a hell of a lot more DVDs from their collection.

 

[george kaplan]

I don't know about Salo, but Hopscotch definitely deserves the Criterion treatment, and The Rock is much, much better than other films in their collection that were released theatrically in 1996 or later.

 

[ShaunS]

Am I the only one that thinks Criterion doing a SE of The Rock and armageddon was a brilliant idea? These are always brought up in debates about the merits of Criterion and I've never really understood why.

I've always seen Criterion's release of those films as merely their foray into a whole genre of films, namely the "Big Budget Blockbuster." They've done Film Noir, Anime, Documentaries, Musicals... the list goes on.

While I'm not too interested in owning either film myself, Criterion did themselves proud with some fantastic extras that cover all that goes into making these types of films. While I'm sure they realized these releases would bring in some cash from average joe (which I'm sure they put towards something I'm much more inclined to pick up like the fantastic Antoine Doniel Box Set), I still don't think that's reason enough to dismiss them or look down on Criterion for releasing them.

We must also keep in mind that most of Criterion's "classics" were hugely popular at the time in their respective countries, just like The Rock was in America. Just because a movie is old with subtitles and in B&W doesn't automatically mean they are suddenly high brow intellectual fodder. French average joes went to see such films as Children of Paradise. Story goes that the streets of Sweden were vacant while Ingmar Bergman's tv mini series Scenes from a Marriage aired.

There once was a time that good films brought in good crowds...

ShaunS

 

[Brian PB]

The absurdity of this statement made me laugh out loud ... You've invested (conservatively) over $20,000 in your DVD collection, yet you're bitching about Criterion's pricing?

That's like a guy driving his Porsche into the McDonald's drive-thru & complaining about the price of the Big Mac.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I have a collection of about 250 DVDs, which is modest to say the least by HTF standards. But a bit over 100 of them are Criterions. What's my point? Not sure...

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

I'd recommend anyone at least see this film, but it's only my personal opinion that it's a stretch for Criterion, and possibly a little attempt at sensationalism on their part. Inasmuch as I'd read the film was tasteless, offensive and base, nothing in it offended me, despite my expectations. In context, however, I can see how it might have been deemed offensive twenty-some years ago. The point about fascists is made very early on but there's really nowhere to go with it except to wallow precociously in excess for the next couple of hours.

But, then again, others may find it fascinating and completely worthy of inclusion, so who am I to judge other than to once again say that it was far too expensive when it first came out (at $40 U.S.) and is now one of the most overpriced DVDs currently up for grabs on the internet.

 

[jason:g]

I own Armageddon, because I like the special effects shots in the movie.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Brian,

But neither Fantoma nor Blue Underground nor any other company you mentioned has released PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK or SCHIZOPOLIS or NIGHTS OF CABIRIA. Most Criterion discs are the only Region 1 release of that particular film, so any comparison with other labels' discs is a case of "apples vs. oranges".

My Criterion copy of HANGING ROCK is worth more, to me, than anything Blue Underground has ever released.

 

[Julian Lalor]

You say that like it's a fact. Well, in my opinion, I don't value movies by how much they cost and I don't consider the several dozen Criterion DVDs I have purchased as a rip-off. It's a market economy. It's their right to charge a premium and it's your right not to purchase at that premium. Clearly, their prices have been high as compared to DVDs from the studios for several years now. If they were unsustainable, then either Criterion would now be out of business or they would have reduced those prices. Neither has occurred. I'd say they'd be more than a few people who agree that the discs are not over-priced.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

I'd say the same for my copy of Criterion's BRAZIL, one of my top three all time favourite films. And I paid around $90 + tax CDN for it when it debuted. Far too much, even for such an excellent package.

With the exception of two that I can think of (the Seijun Suzuki films), most of the Criterions I own (KILLER, HARD BOILED, SEVEN SAMURAI, BRAZIL, IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, TIME BANDITS, LIFE OF BRIAN and a few others) are available on other labels, including some from major studios, and yet I went for the pricey Criterion versions. I'm not against Criterion's choices for their library in general (although I, like many, spot the odd title the makes me go "hmmmm"), and I've only brought up the other companies to argue that many of those films are equally important to the people who like them. The films from Criterion are generally considered more important culturally than many of the films on those labels, but again, many indy distribs have released important - arguably EQUALLY important - films on DVD for around half the price of the Criterion discs and more in keeping with the standard price range for DVD.

And many of the titles from the companies I mentioned are also the only versions of those titles available in R1.

I love the treatments given the films on all my Criterion discs, but many, many companies these days put the same care into their special editions, likely at the same cost. And come on, $50 CDN plus tax (at the time) for BRANDED TO KILL and TOKYO DRIFTER with paltry extras? Sure, they're probably cheaper now, but not by much (at least in Canada).

And yet, still I bought them. I just felt really, really burned at the time.

Just because we all love the films and treatments given these films by Criterion, doesn't fully explain the increased prices they charge. Little does, really.

 

[Vic Cordova]

how many companies have licensed Fando Y Lis? that point is ludicrous...

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

Fantoma right? Good for them. There's a growing list of important films in their expanding catalogue. The suggested retails on their discs rarely top $24.95 and the shelf price usually runs around $17 - $20. Fantoma used to be a bit on the pricey side. I paid over $35 CDN for GIANTS & TOYS, because I love that film, and now I've seen it at Deep Discount for $14.98 US and in Best Buy for something like $16.99. Their website still lists $24.95 as a price, but it's clearly been reduced, as have other titles. no such luck with Criterion yet, even on older stuff.

 

[CraigF]

Just curious: can you go into a typical DVD store in the U.S. and find a fair selection of Criterions? You sure can't in Canada, nor can you typically find much from other "premium" labels (e.g. Blue Underground, Elite, Image). Best Buy is the only largish retailer who has a reasonable selection, but at IMO unreasonable prices (I wonder if Criterion yet has a distributor in Canada?).

I choose my Criterion titles just like I would for any other brand disc: my taste, content, and quality of presentation. I can't help justify their prices because I don't know their business model, but I must say I haven't ever been disappointed in what titles I did purchase. Some niche offbeat stuff at offbeat prices...

People have mentioned Criterion licensing content to other "brands". The original release of Traffic was, in Canada, the Criterion one, under the Alliance Atlantis brand. It was normally priced for a 2-discer, available everywhere, OOP now I believe. This seems to lend credence to what somebody said about the pricing being a brand thing, rather than strictly a distribution thing. That is a pretty fine distinction, not sure if it makes sense...I'm not sure how two other cheap Criterions (Chasing Amy and Royal Tenenbaums) fit into this scheme.

 

[Brian Thibodeau]

Craig

Criterion does have a Canadian distrib, but I can't think of it at the moment. Also, Future Shop does carry a fairly broad selection of discs, but the prices are downright offensive on a lot of it. I think SOLARIS at my local place has a regular sticker price of 60- or 70-some dollars plus tax. Prices like that in this country are more than just the exchange value of the dollar. It's friggin' robbery!

I'm on the border down here, which is probably why I have so much access to all the other labels' product at places like the US Best Buy and Circuit City, etc...