The Trick about the HD-DVD add-on for X-Box 360

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Michael Osadciw, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. Michael Osadciw

    Michael Osadciw Screenwriter

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    Hi guys

    I'm sorry, but this add-on piece is a real kick in the balls. It makes the basic PS3 with HDMI 1.3 a bargain.

    No 1080p for you unless your TV accepts 1080p via component cables (need a VGA to component adapter). ...and no HDMI...???????

    Read the story here:

    http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21...ent-1080p-vga/

    Xbox 360 HD DVD playback: Maximum 1080i via component, 1080p VGA-only
    Posted Sep 21st 2006 2:46PM by Richard Lawler


    We still don't know the US price or launch date, but we've got a bit more specifics on how the Xbox 360 HD DVD player add-on will work when it hits store shelves later this year thanks to a post by Microsoft insider Amir M. on AVS Forum. When Microsoft revealed yesterday it will support 1080p HD DVD and 1080p DVD upconversion we were surprised because it's commonly accepted that the CSS (DVD) and AACS (HD DVD & Blu-ray) copyright provisions wouldn't allow that (although some manufacturers have looked the other way before) via unprotected analog connections. We were right, sort of. Even after the software upgrade this fall, via component cables, the Xbox 360 will still only upconvert DVDs to 480p, and will play HD DVD movies at a maximum resolution of 1080i. To get 1080p output for movies, you must use a VGA cable, which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions. This just means the Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn't know that by reading Microsoft's press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don't return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games . We're still waiting to hear exactly how HD DVD's advanced audio capabilities will be handled by the 360 and oh yeah...a US price, please Microsoft?.

    Update: Added list of supported resolutions after the break.
    To break it all down what you will get from the Xbox 360 after this fall's software update:


    VGA:

    HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others

    DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others

    Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future

    Component:

    HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS

    DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS

    Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
     
  2. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

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    My TV only accepts 1080p through DVI. Would a VGA to DVI adapter work? If so this is still a bargin for me.
     
  3. Nick Graham

    Nick Graham Screenwriter

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    My TV will do 1080i, but not 1080p (which I think is going to be the case with the majority of 360 owners who own HD sets), so this is a slam dunk for me. I only wish they could somehow do 5.1 analog out for TrueHD, as even if it had HDMI, I won't be upgrading my non-HDMI receiver for quite sometime. The Image Constraint Token won't be going into affect until this format war is over, at which point I'm sure I'll have moved on to a new player.

    I bought the 360 for gaming, and the fact that they are making it possible for me to jump into HD-DVD for $200 is just icing on the cake. I still have a feeling Blu-Ray may end up taking the crown in this war, but the sheer amount of must have titles announced for this fall alone will make the $200 investment worth it, and if Blu-Ray wins I can move on to Blu-Ray when the price drops on the PS3 (though I'm sure I'll end up getting a PS3 at some point for gaming whether Blu-Ray succeeds as a movie format or not).
     
  4. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

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    This is confusing. I thought component was only capable of 1080i because of limited bandwidth for the connection itself. I have still not seen a true 1080p signal on my 1080p display.
     
  5. Glen C

    Glen C Stunt Coordinator

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    It makes the PS3 "game console" price less obnoxius but certainly no bargain.

    How is it a "kick in the balls" if you're a 360 owner and want a cheap entry into HD-DVD now? Even if you're not a 360 owner but considering a 360 this xmas (for Halo or 360 exclusive games coming out next year) the HD-DVD price is not bad. 5+ million owners right? A few might want them?

    The PS3 is certainly not a "bargain" unless you compare it to the Samsung or other bluray players (which are priced at an absurd level). Does the PS3 have a remote control available to integrate with your current home theater remote?

    Also, you dismissed the crucial "how do i get one before next summer" factor. Bluray fans will be fighting with over-indulgant parents and older games to get one for many months. Or without a bundle of other pricy junk you don't want.

    Of course at that time we all expect a 360 price drop where this whole discussion is irrelevant [​IMG]
     
  6. Steve Tannehill

    Steve Tannehill Ambassador

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    I am sorry, but this is OBVIOUS flame bait in the wrong forum.
    (moved now by moderator - CA)

    Sheesh.

    This drive is an upgrade path for those people who have XBox 360. It is not the end-all, be-all HD DVD player.

    And the PS3 is not the end-all, be-all Blu Ray player, at least not on paper.

    - Steve
     
  7. JackKay

    JackKay Second Unit

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    An HD-DVD player for $199. King Kong for free! Remote!

    I think I just picked a format.
     
  8. Cheech

    Cheech Extra

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    Ditto. Overblown "Format War" aside, I'll be watching Goodfellas, King Kong, The Thing, Batman Begins, Terminator 3, and Land of the Dead in FULL HD this Christmas break thanks to Microsoft.

    The "PS3 with HDMI 1.3" is no bargain. The best launch title is a game that has been on the PC and 360 since March.

    The plan I'm going through with is buying the 360's HD-DVD player, and enjoying the HD movies available in the coming year. Two years from now, if Blu Ray prices are reasonable and there is a good deal of exclusive content (I'd love to have Aliens in HD), I'll jump for one of those.
     
  9. Rob_Walton

    Rob_Walton Second Unit

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    The success of the HD DVD add-on does sort of depend on Warners not turning on ICT, doesn't it. Not having this option on what is likely to be the highest selling HD DVD player for a while, might not be the best way to woo new studios to release on this format.
     
  10. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Not having HDMI is indeed a "kick in the balls" because sooner or later the studios WILL turn on ICT and then you're screwed. What is the point of the HD-DVD drive anyway? It can't play games. It only adds limited HD movie playback. Unless it has built in Dolby TrueHD, DD+, and DTS Master Audio 7.1 decoders and an 8 channel analog output you're boned there too. No HDMI... period!

    Sony did right by using Blu-Ray as the format for games as they can now get as complex and detail rich as possible and once ICT is turned on you're set because it has an HDMI v. 1.3 output. HDMI 1.3 means it will output all the raw audio bitstreams, and greater color depth if gaming companies so choose for future consumer devices.

    Dan
     
  11. Michael Osadciw

    Michael Osadciw Screenwriter

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    Hey all...

    sorry, my comments were first impressions. no flaming intended. if it were PS3 doing the same I would have said the same.

    Mike
     
  12. Cheech

    Cheech Extra

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    Except that it killed their PS3 manufacturing capacity PS3s, and as such will lose in units sold to the XBox 360 for the second straight Christmas. Additionally, the only use Blu-Ray has is the ability to put in full-HD quality cutscenes. Textures and voice really don't take up that much space; Oblivion, one of the largest 360 titles, only took up 4-5 gigs.
     
  13. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Without the full audio capabiliites built in with full analog outputs to the 360's add on unit then I dare say it's not 90% of the capabilities since it does not have HDMI for even an external decoder. It's a day late and a dollar short whereas the PS3 has at least future proofing built right in even if it doesn't have full analog outputs... you can still hook it to a new surround decoder next year via HDMI 1.3.

    Dan
     
  14. Cheech

    Cheech Extra

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    1. The 360's HD solution has "close enough" audio capabilities for me, and I'd wager most others. Not many people have the 4-5 figure audio systems to be able to tell the difference between TrueHD outputted by the Tosh player and TrueHD downmixed by the 360.

    2. Who cares about HDMI today? It will output 1080p over VGA just fine, thanks. See my prior post about the irrelevence of the ICT in the near to mid term. For that matter, how many 360 owners even have a 1080p display?

    Really, the debate is irrelevant because people don't buy game consoles to watch movies. It's nice that MS is at least giving 360 owners the choice; with Sony, you pay the tab even if you're only interested in games.
     
  15. Rob_Walton

    Rob_Walton Second Unit

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    What is to stop studios from activating ICT tommorrow, other than an internet rumour of an agreement not to? Since the time of that rumour there has been no additional or confirming information anywhere that I've seen. Certainly nothing in any of the recognized CE news sources.
     
  16. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

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    The fact that those of us who have been buying HD DVD (or those buying Blu-Ray) and using component would scream loud and hard, and jeopardize the narrow toehold that the studios' beloved next generation formats have. Enough bad press could kill the formats in the bud.
     
  17. Rob_Walton

    Rob_Walton Second Unit

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    The market segment of component only HD displays has been shrinking rapidly over the last few years, which isn't surprising since most HDTVs have only been bought recently. If someone has the latest figures it would be interesting to see them. Since ICT was explicitly designed to close the "analogue hole" it would be strange to not use it just because it would disadvantage those using analogue! That's the entire point! I'm not sure a few people complaining is going to alter the studio's minds on this issue - it did nothing to remove region coding.
     
  18. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    If the studios wouldn't want to use the ICT, why then not remove the spec altogether?

    The same goes for that dreadful BD "revoke licence" functionality. I do not plan to do anything to ever to "correctly" invoke it. But I'd rather have it not at all, just think of a stupid error "revoking" my future $1000 player?

    These measures are far beyond acceptable. They are a (potential) nuissance for the consumer, but won't stop the real crooks.

    But of course we had this discussion earlier, and extensively, so let's not repeat it here.

    The ICT bit seems "safe" until about 2010 anyway.


    Cees
     
  19. Bryan X

    Bryan X Producer

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    For those of us who already own the 360 this is the least inexpensive way to get into HD. If you haven't bought a 360 yet then the 360HD/PS3BD question is less clear.

    But for what it is -- an inexpensive way for 360 owners to get into HD -- it's great.

    No HDMI doesn't bother me at all. My HDTV doesn't have HDMI now and even if I only get use out of the HD add-on until 2010, that's a damn long time in the life cycle of consumer electronics. I fully expect to have a standalone machine of the winning format by then (if there is one). If there isn't a winner by then, I'll be damn glad I paid less than $200 for my HD player.
     
  20. Rob_Walton

    Rob_Walton Second Unit

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    The 2010 date is often mentioned in these type of threads, but is there anything public from any studio about this issue? As far as I know it's still just an internet rumour that has somehow become accepted wisdom.
     

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