The Sony censorship policy and what caused it (1 Viewer)

[Edwin-S]

I'll know we are in a time warp when I start reading or hearing about how comic books are destroying the minds of our youth and causing juvenile delinquency.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

There's a certain irony that you openly say "I'm boiling mad" while criticizing "pitchforks and torches" responses, but okay.

The MeToo movement didn't do this. Sony did.

Sony hasn't banned women in bikinis in their game. Dead or Alive Xtreme had 2 specific items removed (I believe that was it) that were used in the game in a very obviously sexual manner. The girls in bikinis that jump around and play beach volleyball was left entirely intact.

I get that you guys are mad that Sony told like 3 game devs that they don't want tentacle porn and objectification of women on their privately-owned/operated platform, but let's at least be honest about the specific limitations and ramifications of the new rules.

I don't know what hypocrisy you're referring to. Yeah, American culture is way more cool with violence than it is sexuality. That's unfortunate. It's also way outside of Sony's control and it's something you would need to take up with 330 million Americans. That said, there is an AO rating for games that would cause Sony, MS, and Nintendo to prevent a game from releasing on their platform, so if something is really THAT sexual or violent and gets an AO rating then this whole conversation is moot.

I'd still appreciate hearing someone explain if Walmart refusing to sell porn would be considered "censorship."

 

[Edwin-S]

I'd still appreciate hearing someone explain if Walmart refusing to sell porn would be considered "censorship."

Nobody was answering because the comparison is ridiculous. What SONY is censoring is a far cry from porn which nobody is advocating to be sold on SONY's platform.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Ok. So let's say Walmart refuses to sell R-rated movies in their stores. In response, some studios start making PG-13 versions of their films solely to get them sold at Walmart. You can still buy the uncensored versions in Best Buy. Is that censorship?

EDIT: the stuff Sony is not allowing on their platform is, like, borderline porn. So I think the original comparison is actually still pretty fair.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I thought about this issue a lot over the last day or so and realized there may be a fundamental misunderstanding that is deeper than Sony's policy.

Does everyone here even at least agree that sexism exists, that the portrayal and representation of women in all forms of media is important, that sexist or negative portrayals are bad, and that nerd/geek communities are exceptionally bad at correctly identifying, handling, and changing sexist attitudes?

I read up a bit more on Sony's policy and the one big issue I have with it is that there's no written guidance. The process seems to be: submit a game, Sony rejects it for specific content, you cha

 

[LeoA]

I know we're "supposed" to think that the videogaming community is flawed and needs improvement, but I personally don't think we're as sexist as some would want the world to believe.

I've done precious little online gaming with non-private voice communications for an example, but I do know that multiple times when I have done it, there's been a woman involved. Yet there was no harassment and everyone seemingly enjoyed themselves and the conversation about gaming and such.

I'm sure had it been the latest Call of Duty game and such, things may have been different. But by the same token, I'd of probably been harassed as well due to having an unusually soft voice and having a bit of a lisp. Yet I don't see campaigns out there to improve videogaming because people are insensitive to folks with less than perfect voices.

I'll leave the disgust and concern that a minority of videogame fans are creeps to the people forming lynch mobs over at ResetEra and those like Eurogamer that are profiting off it, and enjoy my non-harmful pursuit of this hobby guilt-free.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Leo - so you're dismissing the collective experience of millions of women gamers, simply because you, in your admittedly little experience, didn't see what they went through?

I'm also not referring solely to things like harassing people in online games. In general, the portrayal of women in media overall is sexist, especially in nerdy areas like games and comics. It's one thing to have diverse ideas and portrayals that aren't entirely flattering, but they're overwhelmingly sexist against women. When was the last time a comic book cover featured a man in a sexy, half-naked pose that was designed specifically to arouse women or gay men? How many games being imported from Japan feature the ability to remove clothes from a young boy and then massage or tickle him? And why is nobody in this forum arguing that we need more of THOSE games coming to America?

It's one thing to say "I'm not part of the problem, so I'm not going to feel bad about it." It's something entirely different to pretend it doesn't exist and that it isn't harmful.

Let me also pose this question Leo - what evidence or information would you need to see in order for you to believe that the harassment and depiction of women in gaming actually is bad or more widespread than you currently think it is?

 

[Jeff Cooper]

The MeToo movement didn't do this. Sony did.

Did you not read the original post that started this whole conversation?

I'd still appreciate hearing someone explain if Walmart refusing to sell porn would be considered "censorship."

Of course not. It's not even remotely related. Do you understand what the word 'censorship' means?

 

[Bryan^H]

The MeToo movement didn't do this. Sony did.

Morgan, are you feeling alright?

 

[Bryan^H]

EDIT: And as for the Mortal Kombat violence point, please stop framing it as "a man hurting a woman." The game has man-man, man-woman, woman-man, monster-human, demon-God violence. The gender of the person being hurt or doing the hurting isn't the issue. It's the representation of women as sexual objects. If you want to argue that you dislike extreme violence in our culture and would be more accepting of extreme sexuality, then that is a completely unrelated discussion that we could absolutely have. But to suggest the violence in Mortal Kombat is a "men beating women to a bloody pulp" thing as a double-standard...is kind of absurd.

Dude...…. What --The-- Fuck?

Mortal Kombat does have Women being mutilated and killed by men!!!!! IT IS IN THE GAME!!!


Yes it has woman, on woman violence as well, but it also has women being gorily killed by men.
It IS certainly an issue.
You can be OK with it. that is fine with me, but don't go down your holier than thou stance and say a girl in a bikini is much, much worse than a girl getting her face torn off with a fish hook by a MALE character!!

How dare you!

 

[Bryan^H]

Sony hasn't banned women in bikinis in their game.

All over the map, but they have banned plenty of bikinis in games and on a cover of a game:

 

[Bryan^H]

 

[Bryan^H]

https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/450587-sony-censorship-policy

"What does Sony gain by forcing developers to cover up their own artwork in this way? It’s not as if the suggestive story scenes in Nora to Oujo to Noraneko Heart have changed any, and the scenarios still take place within the game. So, what do the shining streaks of light do other than upset fans that want to see the creator’s original intent?"


https://www.gamerevolution.com/features/453545-sonys-censorship-worrying-precedent


https://www.oneangrygamer.net/sony-ps4-censorship-policy-censored-games/

 

[Bryan^H]

List of censored games on the Sony PS4 so far...


Arch of the Alchemist – Censored

Brave Neptunia – Censored

Catherine: Full Body – Possibly Censored

Conception Plus – Censored

Date A Live: Rio Reincarnation – Censored

Dead or Alive Xtreme 3: Scarlet – Censored

Devil May Cry 5 – Censored (only in Aus/Euro regions)

Dragon Star Varnir – Censored

Game Tengoku CrusinMix – Censored

Haruoto Alice Gram – Censored

Mary Skelter 2 – Censored

Nekopara Vol. 1 – Censored

Nora to Ouju to Noraneko Heart – Censored

Omega Labyrinth Z – Banned in U.S., Europe

PlayStation Static and Dynamic Themes – Censored

Saku Saku Love Blooms With The Cherry Blossoms – Censored

Silverio Trinity – Censored

Sengoku Hime 7: Sen’un Tsuranuku Guren no Ishi – Nipple Pokies Censored (PS Vita version for ref)

Senran Kagura: 7EVEN – Censored

Senran Kagura Burst Re:newal – Censored

SNK 40th Anniversary Collection – Box Art Censored

Super Seducer – Banned

Williams Pinball Vol. 2 – Censored

Yuragi-Sou No Yuuna-San – Censored

Zanki Zero: Last Beginning – Censored

 

[Jeff Cooper]

The hilarious thing is that in these pictures, the PS4 version actually seems much more suggestive than the non-censored ones.

It's like Jimmy Kimmel's unecessary censorship where the actual beep makes it sound like they are saying things they're not.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Sorry, but I look at that list of "censored" games and I see a bunch of games that are essentially designed solely to arouse men with half-naked anime girls, plus Devil May Cry 5.


My point about MeToo/Sony is that Sony made this decision out of concern for what the current cultural climate might view as offensive content in games that would be broadcast through streaming services as "on PlayStation." MeToo is about people (mostly women) coming forward to talk about their experiences as victims of sexual assault. There's a connection but I think it's a bit disingenuous to basically blame authentic victims of sexual violence for the fact that Sony wants games on it's platform to be slightly less about sexually assaulting little girls.

Still no responses to whether or not anyone here even believes that misogyny and sexual harassment are real issues.

EDIT: And again, I still don't see a real problem with Sony having certain standards for the content it allows to be released on it's platform.

 

[Bryan^H]

Still no responses to whether or not anyone here even believes that misogyny and sexual harassment are real issues.

Yes, sexual harassment is bad. Terrible in fact.

Some lonely/single guy that is likely to be single his entire life being titillated by a game with sexual undertones of attractively designed females in a game and wouldn't dream of treating a female in reality with nothing but respect, and honorable intentions. That is most likely the type of guy you are calling a sexual predator Morgan. You are taking something completely harmless, and a bit sad and making it something sinister, and ugly.

But good on you for attacking these lonely souls. The less joy they have in their life the better right?​

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Excuse me, but where did I call ANYONE a sexual predator?

Frankly, I'm more worried about incels like the ones who keep shooting up sorority houses and yoga studios than I am about a quiet pervert. Go ahead, be a pervert, enjoy whatever gets you off...I really don't care and I have zero interest in regulating what you do with your time or money.

Sony just would rather their platform not become synonymous with that. Is that...bad?

The objectification of women and the fact that objectified female characters significantly outweigh either objectified males or non-objectified females is kind of a bad thing for gaming, even when looking only at the surface level of how non-gamers would view it. Sony looked at the gaming landscape, looked at the cultural landscape, and made a decision about what side of history their company wanted to be on. It was most likely a business decision rather than a moral or ethical one, but they still made that choice. And I still don't get why that's inherently bad.

Like I asked earlier, if Walmart decided that they would not sell R-rated movies in their stores, would that be censorship? Since Sony, Nintendo, and MS have a longstanding policy to not allow AO rated games on their platforms (going back to when the ESRB was created), does that mean they're all pro-censorship and have been for decades? Or is that a more acceptable limit on content? If you think it's an acceptable limit to not allow AO games, then what if these "tickle naked underage anime girl" games were rated AO by the ESRB and then Sony didn't allow them?

(I'll agree that if Sony was allowing these games in their unfiltered form onto the PS4 and then secretly modifying the games without the developer's consent or knowledge, THAT would be censorship. But refusing to allow a game to be published on PS4 because of content is not censorship.)

 

[DaveF]

Hi. So I’m typing while walking in a TSA Pre line so I’ll be short:

Dial back the rage, the strawmen, the accusations and socio-political commentary. Focus on the facts and Sony. Or the thread will get closed. You know how it is.

Thx.

 

[Bryan^H]

So Sony censored the cartoonish girl in a bikini for the cover art of this game:

But allows this on their platform:




Does anyone here find this mildly upsetting. The fact that Sony finds a bikini more damaging Than a male character mutilating a female character. Blood, guts and all.
This censorship policy is crazzzy. And I just supplied the proof of it.