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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ChrisA, Apr 24, 2002.
Dave, Bjoern, and others...
We need to start working on version 2 of the Consumer Expectations of HD-DVD... We need to include the words as described in the petition that got published in Widescreen Review. We also need to update the petition with a few new ideas, as well as emphasize yet again, the need for Progressive mastering and progressive output!
Warner brothers actually thinks it can make acceptable 1080i output at 6-7 mbps using MPEG-4, however, we will need more bandwisth and storage, such as Blue Ray offers to get:
1) Significant increase in Audio quality
2) Even if MPEG 4 were to be utilized, a 1080p progressive mastering/progressive output will require much more bandwidth alone!
3) Even if for some reason 1080i or 720p was used, 15-20+ MPEG-4 (or a better wavelet type of algorithm) is significantly better than 7 mbps MPEG-4... And that still doesn't address the need for one high quality primary Audio track such as 20/48 MLP, (or some new algorithm that is less harsh than Dolby Digital and can utilize 4-6 mbps bandwidth to provide a primary high quality multichannel track.
I'm just totally disgusted by the blatant agenda by Warner Brothers in regards to trying to give the consumers the least quality possible in an attempt to maximize their own profit.
although going from 1080I to 1080P doesn't really require more bandwidth except to encode the greater entropy of an image that hasn't been filtered for aliasing.
Because we're talking about film source 24 fps material, whether it's split on the disc in "fields" or flagged as "frames" makes no difference in storage or bandwidth...just like with 480 DVD. Only difference is we don't want all our movies "prefiltered for aliasing on interlaced displays" like they do with 480 DVDs mastered from film (I think Titanic has no such filtering, but since they got the flags wrong and since it's 4x3 lbxed who cares).
Want to post the proposed new draft and we can work on it?
Yes, we do need to do just that. I think we also need to be more specific and speak directly against Warner Brothers, plan. We need to mention Warner Brothers I think...
I know that Gary Reber was a bit upset that the wording did not match, so we need to match the wording, in adition to revision. The first thing we need to do is post the version in WSR. I'll try to find my copy and do just that, then we can work on the revision. So let's start by getting the WSR version up...
Why not go for double 1080p resolution (in both directions), and have the players provide options for
Regular TV and HDTV outputs (including analog component outputs at the highest quality that a HDTV-ready set can display)
HDTV Theater: HDTV + 1080p at 60 or 72 frames per second, with frame rate auto-selected to match source material
Super HDTV Theater: 2160p at 60 or 72 frames per second, with frame rate auto-selected to match source material
Certified HDTV Theater: Like Super HDTV Theater, except that player automatically ejects 4:3 or 16:9 Pan and Scan discs. [/list=1] Advantages:
2160p gives room to grow (think of a large "widescreen" blank wall, just waiting to be turned into a movie screen by a future projector) and is easily downconverted to 1080p (each 1080p pixel is a composite of four 2160p pixels).
72Hz is a better frame rate than 60 Hz for displaying 24 Hz material, and multisync monitors are no big deal in the computer world.
Regular TV and HDTV outputs would keep existing TV owners from being left behind.[/list=1]
Thomas your input is appreciated. In any case, I must dig up my copy of WSR sometime soon and get theat posted then work from there...
New DVD Format Proposed
Tokyo, Japan (September 3, 2002)--Toshiba Corp. and NEC have submitted a new DVD format to the DVD Forum. This new format is incompatible with the Blu-ray standard for blue-laser DVDs proposed by Sony, Panasonic and others, but would be compatible with existing discs.
The Toshiba and NEC format also uses a blue laser, whose short wavelength enables the discs to store a large amount of information. Their version, however, works better with existing red-laser discs that the Blu-ray standard, and will presumably smooth the transition from red to blue lasers.
The proposed format increases the capacity of read-only discs to 15 GB for a single-sided, single-layer disc, and to 30 GB for a single-sided, dual-layer disc, and pushes the capacity of read-and-write discs, which currently are single-sided with a single layer, to 20 GB. Today's single-sided, dual-layer, read-only discs have a capacity of 8.5 GB, while read-and-write discs (single-sided, single-layer only) can store up to 4.7 GB of data. The increased capacity of the proposed format is achieved by employing a blue laser, and by utilizing the two companies' new signal-processing and phase-change media recording technologies.
In addition, Toshiba and NEC will shortly propose a 40 GB single-sided, dual-layer, read-and-write disc to the DVD Forum.
Toshiba and NEC's proposal is based on the following four advantages.
It meets manufacturers' needs by enabling use of the same manufacturing infrastructure as current DVD, which minimizes disc production costs.
It supports development of backward compatible players that can playback current and next generation DVD.
Like the current DVD, it is easy to realize a disc that does not need a cartridge, which allows slim drives that can be integrated into portable equipment.
It is easy to realize dual-layer discs, as the back-to-back bonding of 0.6mm-thick discs is the same as for current DVD.
Toshiba and NEC will together submit technical data to the DVD Forum that is necessary for the standardization of the next-generation, high-capacity, blue-laser DVD.
Outline of proposed format
User data capacity: Single-layer 15GB/side
Dual-layer 30GB/side Single-layer 20GB/side
File format: UDF
User bit rate: 36Mbps
Disc size: 120mm (diagonal), 1.2mm (thickness: 0.6mm x 2)
Laser diode wavelength: 405nm
Numerical aperture of objective lens: 0.65
Truck structure --- Land & groove
Signal processing: PRML
Modulation: 2/3 conversion