The Outer Limits is turning 50.... (1 Viewer)

[Craig Beam]

It's one of my all-time favorites. I don't get the hate.

 

[Sadsack]

How is "Nightmare" NOT avant-garde? Is the design of the Ebonite planet unusual or experimental?

avant-garde (noun): new and unusual or experimental ideas, especially in the arts, or the people introducing them.

I dont think alien planets will have vinyl floors. Why would an alien planet be "avant garde"? Doesnt make sense if you're trying to convince the audience of the reality. Now you might say it's called a "Nightmare" so anything goes, but then the characters should wake up at the end (like the Star Trek OK corral episode). Martin Sheen's reaction to losing his voice...avant garde or just overacting? The rush to judgment and death sentence about Shigeta? Other characters suddenly flipping out? What's to love about this episode???

 

[Nelson Au]

I guess Craig, from what I can gather from responses, there is a group of people who don’t like the planet sets as staged. That it felt too minimal. Or shows the low budget of the show. I can see the intent is that the Ebonite planet was meant to be this flat detail-less plain with a far off horizon seen at the edge of the stage. The clarity of the disc reveals the floor and stage edges. The same has been said about The Empath and Spectre of the Gun from Star Trek having minimal and partial sets seen as a cost saver. I think in all these cases, the sets are stylized. I think it’s great stuff.

By the way, I read your review of The Human Factor, it’s not a favorite of yours.

 

[Sadsack]

The set design is only one of the problems I see in "Nightmare." The set in the Star Trek episode Empath was underground so you could sort of excuse it, although still an unrealistic waste of space for their purposes.
Only a few people are discussing the episode, let alone criticizing it, so I'm not sure why Craig wrote "why all the hate." And I dont like the implication of that phrase which makes anyone critical sound like a troll.
If I like a certain episode which someone (or most people) say they dont like it, I merely mention the reasons why I like it. I dont start questioning why others dont share my opinion. I wouldnt keep saying "this is a great episode" (as opposed to "I like this episode") because that's always going to prompt others to debate the value of that statement objectively. At least it prompts me.

 

[Camper]

I think the show did suffer from the tail end of what we might call "over emotive male acting" started in the 50s.
Star Trek suffered from it as Shatner took less and less direction and thought he's spice up some episodes with what we now call "Shatnerisms."
It's why although a lot of Trek holds up I have to be cautious when picking episodes for my daughters to watch. They may get past the sets or the FX but they have a hard time seeing the 50s/60s style acting and especially the treatment of the female characters. It blows their minds how the females were treated and how they acted back then.

TOL and TLZ suffered from it in some episodes where the actors went over the top -- at least by todays standards. I was a child of the 60s and as I grew I saw less and less of that style of acting. Some I can get by and other times it seems too much to rationalize.

I love the "Invisibles" episode, but come on, Tony Mordente was ridiculously over the top, -- "When people lie to me I wanna' beat 'em up and beat 'em up till they're all beat up!!!" And his very gait as he walks away from Mr. Spain at the end is a hoot. I never knew one could overact so much just by walking!
It's laughable today and I'm not exactly sure how an adult took that in 1963.

So I am getting the impression, that perhaps if someone has the initial memory from first run or early reruns of the show they have a fondness for some episodes where they overlook certain aspects and enjoy others.
While other people just think the acting or logic or FX or set design just doesn't cut it and it brings the episode down to where they are sort of picking at all the faults instead of being engrossed.

I think it's rather amazing that anyone who is only vaguely familiar with these shows and sees them for the first time thru adult eyes can pick up on the finer qualities and set aside those they don't like. It is impressive that these genre shows are as lasting as they are. It's a tribute to the forward looking concepts that they still resonate. The fact that people disagree on certain episodes is less important than the fact that so many people still love other episodes of a show that is 55 years old.

 

[B-ROLL]

I guess Craig, from what I can gather from responses, there is a group of people who don’t like the planet sets as staged. That it felt too minimal. Or shows the low budget of the show. I can see the intent is that the Ebonite planet was meant to be this flat detail-less plain with a far off horizon seen at the edge of the stage. The clarity of the disc reveals the floor and stage edges. The same has been said about The Empath and Spectre of the Gun from Star Trek having minimal and partial sets seen as a cost saver. I think in all these cases, the sets are stylized. I think it’s great stuff.

By the way, I read your review of The Human Factor, it’s not a favorite of yours.

For STC "Spectre of the Gun" was originally proposed as a "save money! shoot it on the backlot" episode (eg "Patterns of Force" as Hogan's Heroes was shooting at Desilu and they had all the paraphernalia).

The sparse sets were designed to show it wasn't "Real" ...

 

[Sadsack]

I love the "Invisibles" episode, but come on, Tony Mordente was ridiculously over the top...
While other people just think the acting or logic or FX or set design just doesn't cut it and it brings the episode down to where they are sort of picking at all the faults instead of being engrossed.

I dont mind Sir Anthony's acting. He was a Jet, you know.
A good episode is going to be more than the sum of its parts. I like the episode too, so I try not to let Tony ruin it for me. He's annoyingly whiny as a vulnerable, damaged youth, but I guess somebody had to do it. Actually I thought his shambling walk after attempting to kill his "friend" Spain was more effective than any dialog. In retrospect, it's a tad silly in the beginning when he bumps into a hallway ashtray just to establish his character asap.

 

[Harry-N]

Older TV acting was "bigger" because the screens were so small. Everything needed to be exaggerated in order to be noticed, or so it was likely thought.

How many of us with our 60" screens now notice subtle facial expressions that went totally unnoticed on our 19" RCA consoles?

 

[Sadsack]

By then I thought TV relied on close-ups, so there wasnt a need for histrionics unless the director asked for it...? The alien-possessed characters act pretty nutty in INVISIBLES, probably at the director's behest, so maybe Tony was just following orders. I like Don Gordon's close-ups because he's generally stoic, and any subtle expression is that much more revealing.

 

[Craig Beam]

By the way, I read your review of The Human Factor, it’s not a favorite of yours.

This is true. However, there's a lot to appreciate about it...it was the first episode Conrad Hall shot, it has a great score (pieces of which would reappear almost constantly throughout the first season), and (*sigh*) Sally Kellerman is in it.

Now about the planet Ebon in "Nightmare." It's not a matter of budget (or a lack thereof): it was supposed to look that way. From Schow's Companion:

Stefano’s “exteriors” on Ebon, meant to depict only a milky-white, even sky and a flat, vast, empty black surface, slick and glassy-hard as some ebony gem, were shot on a nearly naked sound stage dressed with a few outcrops of Jack Poplin’s fabricated rocks. Robert Justman hung a lot of black velvet, to transform the set into a featureless kind of limbo area, heightening the impression that the whole show is an experimental stage drama.

Sounds pretty avant-garde to me... but what do I know?

 

[Doug Wallen]

During the past week I viewed Corpus Earthling and Nightmare. Two episodes that have never been on my favorites list. I appreciated the clarity of these new transfers. Corpus Earthling is still not a favorite although I truly enjoyed Barry Atwater's mad scientist so much.

I found much more to enjoy in Nightmare. The episode looks great and I really like the minimalist approach to planet Ebon. I found the acting believable. Still not a favorite but a very enjoyable outing in the Outer Limits.

 

[Sadsack]

Now about the planet Ebon in "Nightmare." It's not a matter of budget (or a lack thereof): it was supposed to look that way. From Schow's Companion:

Stefano’s “exteriors” on Ebon, meant to depict only a milky-white, even sky and a flat, vast, empty black surface, slick and glassy-hard as some ebony gem, were shot on a nearly naked sound stage dressed with a few outcrops of Jack Poplin’s fabricated rocks. Robert Justman hung a lot of black velvet, to transform the set into a featureless kind of limbo area, heightening the impression that the whole show is an experimental stage drama.

Sounds pretty avant-garde to me... but what do I know?

If "an experimental stage drama" works for some viewers, that's great. But that interpretation sums up exactly why it's not going to work with all viewers. Noir-style photography and fish-eye lens are one thing, but a planet that looks like a high school gymnasium dressed for the set of "Waiting For Godot" is quite another. I'm not being snarky, that's how it looks, and that's not my idea of science fiction (unless the characters are in some altered mental state or alternate reality to justify it).
Btw, I did say early on that the music was the best thing in the episode (for me).

 

[JohnHopper]

If "an experimental stage drama" works for some viewers, that's great. But that interpretation sums up exactly why it's not going to work with all viewers. Noir-style photography and fish-eye lens are one thing, but a planet that looks like a high school gymnasium dressed for the set of "Waiting For Godot" is quite another. I'm not being snarky, that's how it looks, and that's not my idea of science fiction (unless the characters are in some altered mental state or alternate reality to justify it).
Btw, I did say early on that the music was the best thing in the episode (for me).

I agree all the way. You sum up very well what this episode look like and I like the way you present the POW as "a high school gymnasium dressed for the set of Waiting For Godot". The episode plays like an average 1950's television drama.

 

[Craig Beam]

The episode plays like an average 1950's television drama.

Please name ONE "average 1950's television drama" that even remotely resembles "Nightmare."

 

[Sadsack]

Please name ONE "average 1950's television drama" that even remotely resembles "Nightmare."

The Twilight Zone, lol.

 

[Craig Beam]

The Twilight Zone, lol.

What??? Now you're just baiting me.

 

[Sadsack]

What??? Now you're just baiting me.

I thought I was suppose to since the forum gave me the title "Stunt Coordinator."
Maybe John was referring to anthology shows like Playhouse 90, Studio One, etc. which dealt with the Everyman, social issues, etc.

 

[Blimpoy06]

Maybe John was referring to anthology shows like Playhouse 90, Studio One, etc. which dealt with the Everyman, social issues, etc.

And these shows were presented as live stage plays in most instances. The Criterion Collection The Golden Age Of Television has "Bang The Drum Slowly" and "No Time For Sergeants". The sets are minimal with no back drops. Actors often speak to the audience under a spot light.
"Bang The Drum Slowly"

"No Time For Sergeants"

 

[Nelson Au]

There’s this one, but I think it was already mentioned, and it is from 1961.

 

[JohnHopper]

There’s this one, but I think it was already mentioned, and it is from 1961.

View attachment 46628

I like that one thanks to the ballet dancer.