Blu-ray Review The Other Blu-ray Review (1 Viewer)

[Matt Hough]

The Other Blu-ray Review

Actor-turned-author Tom Tryon lends a strong hand (both producing and script writing) in bringing his best seller The Other to the screen in Robert Mulligan’s masterful 1972 exercise in psychological horror. Like Roman Polanski’s Rosemary’s Baby, another utterly faithful film version of a best selling novel, the shocks are momentarily visceral, but the atmosphere of evil all around the central characters is what keeps tension fraught to a fever pitch as the viewer is offered droplets of information at regular intervals until the truth is utterly and inevitably revealed.

Studio: Fox

Distributed By: Twilight Time

Video Resolution and Encode: 1080P/AVC

Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1

Audio: English 1.0 DTS-HDMA (Mono)

Subtitles: English SDH

Rating: PG

Run Time: 1 Hr. 40 Min.

Package Includes: Blu-ray

keep case

Disc Type: BD50 (dual layer)

Region: All

Release Date: 10/08/2013

MSRP: $29.95

The Production Rating: 4/5

Identical twins Niles (Chris Udvarnoky) and Holland (Martin Udvarnoky) Perry are having a rambunctious summer of 1935. Their older sister is expecting a baby which has all of the family excited, and their mother (Diana Muldaur) is starting to come out of a deep depression she had suffered some months earlier. Niles and Holland are like opposite sides of a coin: Niles is the thoughtful, deeply emotional twin while Holland is the mischievous, surly one. When a series of lethal and near-lethal accidents begin happening in this rural neighborhood, there is a great uproar in the family, especially since grandmother Ada (Uta Hagen) feels she can get to the root of the truth by first forcing Niles to participate in a trance-based empathy game and then once she gets the answers she needs, forbidding him to engage in the game any longer.

While the story’s central twist is a good one, it’s more successfully carried out in the Tom Tryon book where certain visual clues can be more successfully camouflaged than they can in the realistic world of the movies. As he did in To Kill a Mockingbird, director Robert Mulligan focuses more strongly on individuals and lets the story unfold rather matter-of-factly. And the director is so smart to show us images without putting a blaring spotlight on them which will have great significance much later in the film (the carnival sequence is one of those scenes that has a much bigger payoff later than at the time of first viewing, and we watch Niles participate in “The Game” in purely visual terms in an exhilarating sequence with a frightening conclusion.) The shock moments are certainly chilling without being gore-infused monstrosities, but the psychological implications of what has gone on before the big reveal (about two-thirds of the way through the film) carry even greater effect in the film’s last third even though the action slows down considerably. The final images have a chill all their own which will bring to a cinemagoer’s mind not only Rosemary’s Baby from a few years past but also The Omen which will be coming in a couple of years.

Chris Udvarnoky who has the larger role of Niles is creepily effective even if he occasionally swallows his dialogue in whispers or muted emotional outbursts. Brother Martin Udvarnoky playing twin Holland has very believable rapport with his real-life brother, and their scenes together are sometimes quite disturbing. Uta Hagen with a thick Russian accent and a lot of expressive warmth has a field day with Grandma Ada. Diana Muldaur well captures the brittle emotional state of Alexandra and later most effectively conveys her muted condition. Victor French beautifully plays a handyman whose son (Clarence Crow) is murdered during the killing spree, and Portia Nelson likewise gets nicely inside her stern neighbor character Mrs. Rowe who also comes to an untimely end.

Video Rating: 4.5/5  3D Rating: NA

The film’s theatrical aspect ratio of 1.85:1 is faithfully realized in the 1080p transfer using the AVC codec. Color is wonderfully conveyed in consistently rendered hues that are most appealing and somewhat suggestive of an earlier era, the skin tones always completely believable. Sharpness is usually excellent though there are a couple of softer than expected shots with contrast that’s occasionally a trifle light. Black levels are usually quite good though not always plumbing the depths of inkiness. The film has been divided into 12 chapters.

Audio Rating: 4/5

The DTS-HD Master Audio 1.0 sound mix reproduces the cinema experience of the era with a very effective mono track. Dialogue has been nicely recorded and isn’t compromised by the mixing with sound effects or Jerry Goldsmith’s edgy score. There are no age-related artifacts like hiss or crackle to intrude on the suspenseful viewing experience the film offers.

Special Features Rating: 2.5/5

Isolated Score Track: the Jerry Goldsmith score is presented in a DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 stereo reproduction.

Theatrical Trailer (3:10, SD)

Six-Page Booklet: contains a superb collection of color stills, poster art on the back cover, and film historian’s Julie Kirgo’s astute analysis of the movie.

Overall Rating: 4/5

The Other was one of the last of its breed: a horror film that eschewed stomach-churning blood and guts for more internalized, chill-inducing effects (The Exorcist would be unveiled the following year). There are only 3,000 copies of this Blu-ray available. Those interested should go to www.screenarchives.com to see if there are any still available. Information about the movie can also be found via Facebook at www.facebook.com/twilighttimemovies.

Reviewed By: Matt Hough

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[Virgoan]

One of my favorite films of the 1970s, and one of my favorite Jerry Goldsmith scores. I have a recollection that this score was one of three up for consideration as a replacement nominee when Rota's "The Godfather" was disqualified for the 1972 Academy Award. Another Fox score, John Addison's "Sleuth", took the 5th slot for score. I don't recall the third score considered, but believe it was a Jerry Fielding score.

 

[Charles Smith]

This is such great news. I've seen The Other exactly twice -- when it opened in 1972, and on TV (TCM?) just a year or two ago. The first time, I have to admit I thought it was okay but was ultimately unexcited by it. My fault, not the film's. I wasn't ready for it. Decades later, it just made total sense and I was delighted to have captured it on DVD-R! Well, now I can give that away and dig into this the evening it arrives. Can't wait. Thanks, Matt, and thank you once again, Twilight Time!

 

[ROclockCK]

Robert Mulligan won the Best Director award at Sitges, but during the 1972 awards season The Other was bafflingly ignored overall. If nothing else, I expected it to lock-up Oscar nominations for Supporting Actress, Adapted Screenplay, Cinematography, and Score, but it missed the cut on all counts. On balance, 1972 was an unusually crowded year for quality filmmaking, specifically stateside.

Actually, I saw The Other 3 times theatrically, which was very unusual for me, even pre-video. There was just something mesmerizing about Mulligan's beautifully shot yet ominous frames...his simultaneously nostalgic yet sombre mood...and the chilling yet sweetly tragic feelings he managed to evoke, sometimes within the same scene. The Other was one of the most compelling 'pushme-pullyou' cinematic dream states I've ever given over to...and I think I love it precisely because of Mulligan's stubborn refusal to rely on the usual genre tropes...creating both a celebration and apotheosis of what a horror/mystery/thriller can be.

I haven't seen this gem since '72, so I'm eagerly anticipating TT's Blu-ray edition. It will be interesting to see what a little mileage on the old life odometer will do for an oddity like this...

 

[haineshisway]

Can you please tell me times so I can see these softer than expected shots and the shots with light contrast because I honestly haven't seen them and I'm curious as to where they are so I can view them and offer an opinion - because, for me, this is a five-star perfect transfer in every way. I can only tell you it didn't look this good in theaters.

 

[Matt Hough]

Sorry, Bruce. When I note something awry even a little bit, I put a mark on my note sheet, but I don't note the times or places. I had three small marks when I finished the film. I hope you understand I am extremely busy at this time of year (three TV box sets at the moment) and simply cannot go back into the movie to offer proof to you of what I saw on my set-up.

But really, the difference in my mind between a 4.5 (which in my grading system is an A) and a 5 (an A+) isn't worth haggling about.

And you're right. It looked washed out, almost dim when I saw it at the movies all those years ago. This is a massive improvement.

 

[haineshisway]

I'm just always curious about this stuff - for example, there's one shot of the boy towards the end of the film - he's in close-up and at some point he moves slightly back and goes out of focus slightly - that happens when focus is critical and the actor moves - they don't catch it until dailies and its usually too late by then. The most famous example of it is The Manchurian Candidate, where in Sinatra's wonderful one-take monologue, he moved slightly to the rear and the entire shot is out of focus slightly. They reshot it but the performance wasn't as good, so the original out of focus take is in the transfer. If it's that sort of thing, it's not the transfer it's the way it is on film. That was really the only instance of that I saw, other than the occasional softness inherent in the opticals, including one multi-pass optical that has four dissolves in it.

Love the film and was so pleased with the way it looks.

 

[Radioman970]

awesome.. well, it would be more awesome if it was on amazon and a little cheaper.

It is a very good film. I don't remember seeing it, but it takes me back since it's like a particularly strange episode of The Waltons or something.

 

[Virgoan]

Very much enjoyed it last night. The sound on the isolated soundtrack was especially compelling and crisp/bright. Am hopeful some label issues the "complete" soundtrack some day.

 

[Felix Martinez]

I love this film, and I'm very pleased with the TT Blu-ray. So glad to have this in HD; it looks wonderful.

I find this to be a particularly disturbing, haunting, and tragic film. I envy those who are watching it for the first time.

Found a vintage one sheet on Ebay and got it framed, just in time for the Blu-ay viewing this weekend.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Just finished watching this film.

Had never heard of it before this Twilight Time release.

Really liked this film and the way it keeps the mystery hidden, revealing its
secrets in bits and pieces so that the viewer doesn't know the complete
truth until the film nears its climax.

Creepy? You bet! As mentioned, it has that feel of both "Rosemary's
Baby" and "The Omen."

The transfer looks great as Matt has pointed out in his review. I always
amazed time and time again by how well some of these 70s films look on
Blu-ray.

Was kind of cool to see that Uta Hagen was cast in the film. A highly respected
actress, she was a guest at a film study class at my local college in the early 1980s.
Also, a very young John Ritter in one of his earliest acting roles.

Really happy that I put faith in this title. It was really cool to get a little creeped
out by this little gem of a film I had previously never heard of.

 

[ChromeJob]

Just found this while shopping Screen Archives ... so glad to find it reviewed here. I've loved this film since I was a kid (network TV airing, on Friday nights if memory serves), and own the barely acceptable DVD. I enjoy sharing this film with those who haven't heard of it, as I have the book too. Can't wait to see the BD.

I consider this another chapter in a series of films that Robert Mulligan made about growing up, all classics: To Kill a Mockingbird, Summer of '42, The Other, and The Man In the Moon. He had an almost wizardly touch for conveying the complicated and emotional experience of being a child growing up into a mysterious and oftimes contradictory adult world. The Other is an unusual film that illustrates that languid feeling of being out of school during the summer, trying to invent ways to keep entertained, all while adult distractions occur on the periphery. Like Mockingbird, there's a dark secret lurking in the background. Summer of '42 was ostensibly a comedy, a poignant "coming of age" story (overused to the point of cliche), but there are so many shades to it.

It was a very busy time for American film innovation, a conventional film like this was easily bulldozed over by more attention-grabbing flicks. Looking forward to seeing this in HD, and hearing Goldsmith's score by itself.

When asked to give a shortlist of truly great, classic horror movies for Halloween viewing, I always includ The Other along with Dead of Night, The Haunting, Don't Look Now, The Innocents, Night of the Demon (UK cut), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978).

Spoiler

IIRC, you never see Niles and Holland in the same shot, even though twin boys played each. I remember testing this observation by watching, and there is a single(?) panning shot from one to the other. Maybe there's another quick pan in their hiding place in the barn at some point. Of course, after you've seen it and learned the truth, you want to to watch it all over again and see if you can figure out how Niles could've done everything that he blames on Holland -- I don't think you'll find a single discrepancy. Which is a testament to the film's attention to detail.

Interesting piece about Mulligan.
http://www.thefilmjournal.com/issue11/adrobertmulligan.html

 

[Cineman]

Just found this while shopping Screen Archives ... so glad to find it reviewed here. I've loved this film since I was a kid (network TV airing, on Friday nights if memory serves), and own the barely acceptable DVD. I enjoy sharing this film with those who haven't heard of it, as I have the book too. Can't wait to see the BD.

I consider this another chapter in a series of films that Robert Mulligan made about growing up, all classics: To Kill a Mockingbird, Summer of '42, The Other, and The Man In the Moon. He had an almost wizardly touch for conveying the complicated and emotional experience of being a child growing up into a mysterious and oftimes contradictory adult world. The Other is an unusual film that illustrates that languid feeling of being out of school during the summer, trying to invent ways to keep entertained, all while adult distractions occur on the periphery. Like Mockingbird, there's a dark secret lurking in the background. Summer of '42 was ostensibly a comedy, a poignant "coming of age" story (overused to the point of cliche), but there are so many shades to it.

It was a very busy time for American film innovation, a conventional film like this was easily bulldozed over by more attention-grabbing flicks. Looking forward to seeing this in HD, and hearing Goldsmith's score by itself.

When asked to give a shortlist of truly great, classic horror movies for Halloween viewing, I always includ The Other along with Dead of Night, The Haunting, Don't Look Now, The Innocents, Night of the Demon (UK cut), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1978).

Spoiler

IIRC, you never see Niles and Holland in the same shot, even though twin boys played each. I remember testing this observation by watching, and there is a single(?) panning shot from one to the other. Maybe there's another quick pan in their hiding place in the barn at some point. Of course, after you've seen it and learned the truth, you want to to watch it all over again and see if you can figure out how Niles could've done everything that he blames on Holland -- I don't think you'll find a single discrepancy. Which is a testament to the film's attention to detail.

Interesting piece about Mulligan.
http://www.thefilmjournal.com/issue11/adrobertmulligan.html

Thanks for that link. I love Mulligan's work and fell in love with The Other when I first saw it in the theater the year it opened. However, I think there is something even more complex going on with Mulligan's handling of it than is generally discussed.

Spoiler

Belton says this with regard to Ada's character; "Though she enriches and turns on the child’s imagination, her gift is used in a destructive way by the child.” Indeed, Niles becomes responsible for at least three deaths (four, if we count the Niles-induced heart attack of a neighbor)."


But I believe Mulligan is playing with the audience's expectations of a thriller of this sort and with our imagination vs reality as well as that of Niles. On repeat viewings it strikes me that Niles is not really "responsible" for any of the dastardly deeds depicted in the film. Not having read the book, I can't relate this to what Tryon spells out. But Mulligan clearly leaves room for his movie's audience to conclude Niles might have been nearby for the deaths, there is no real evidence that he intended for them to happen and instead we are shown in some cases that he could not have been responsible for them. For example, there is no way a young child would "know" that an old lady would have a heart attack and die on the spot at the sight of a rat. In fact, Mulligan concludes the sequence with a shot of Niles, whether at this moment he honestly thought of himself as "Holland" or was just content to pretend to be Holland.


The fall of his mother down the stairs? Mulligan never shows Niles "pushing" or in any other way tricking his mother into falling down those stairs. Instead, again, Mulligan includes shots of aggression on the part of the mother toward Niles, which triggers her own fall. Like the ultimate fate of Ada, the mother clearly "does it to herself".


The pitchfork death? Highly inconclusive, imo. We see the farm hand handling the pitchfork earlier either through the eyes of Niles as "bird" or in Niles' memory of having seen him with it earlier, depending on how you want to interpret Ada's "game" (btw, it must be the only pitchfork of its kind on the farm since the farm hand takes full responsibility for having "accidentally" left that very one in the haystack instead of pleading he couldn't have done it since he was busy with another pitchfork that day) but we never see a moment where Niles would have had an opportunity to carry that pitchfork, unseen by how many stray characters in and around that farmhouse and barn at a given moment, into the barn and place it just so for the kill.


The dead baby in the pickle barrel? All shots of Niles depict him dry as a bone throughout the night. Yet a point is made to highlight a torrential rainstorm that night. When did Niles interact with that pickle barrel? How could he have done it without getting drenched and noticed as such by others in the house or surroundings? No mud tracks into the house?


But who did place the pitchfork in the haystack and put the dead baby in the pickle barrel? I think all the physical and admittedly limited eyewitness evidence points to the farm hand, the very person the adults in the movie assume did it, and to no one else.


You having seen The Other as many times as I have if not more, I wonder what you think of my assessment here? It strongly appeared to me Mulligan was saying Niles was a kid with a vivid imagination, that it is questionable whether he truly had "psychic" powers or whatever, but was merely an agent in this story, in Mulligan's version of it, that is, for OUR imagination to cause us to conclude something the evidence given my Mulligan not only fails to support but in at least a couple of cases outright refutes it.

 

[Cineman]

^ *sigh*


My love of computers has just increased manyfold. uh..for whatever reason some of my "spoiler" comments are blacked out since I dared to copy and paste a quote from the link provided and it carried over to...well, whatever the hell happened. Anyway, it also turns out doing that made the last section of my comment in the "spoiler" box blank out. Even further comments about that problem were blanked out when I tried to edit it.


Whatever.


Turns out you can read the end of my "spoiler" comment if you drag your cursor over that section. If anybody knows how to get back to normal on that post, I'd be happy to give it a try. However, at this point the marvelous modern world of computer ease and convenience has defeated me. LOL!

 

[Charles Smith]

I'm on my browser now, and I see what you mean. However, on Tapatalk (using an iPad), which is where I read this thread a while ago, the spoilers displayed normally.

 

[ChromeJob]

I've seen people purposely disguise spoiler text as white-on-white ... so I know that trick to drag-select.


Might try editing your post, copying all the text, pasting into Notepad or the Apple equivalent, then pasting back in. I'll bet there's formatting code that the editor converted from that site's white-on-black format (which I'm glad most people abandoned; it's harder to read on most devices). But no need on my acccount, just future readers/lurkers.


So back to the movie....

Spoiler

I'd have to watch my DVD again (or wait until the BD arrives!).... My recollection, often faulty, is that Mulligan left most things so imprecise that you can view the film as Niles channeling Holland for some acts ... or that Holland is a poltergeist brought to action by Niles ... or that these things are just happening around him and his fantasy that Holland is still alive and keeping him company raises suspicion that it's Holland. And we as audience have to decide for ourselves. The ambiguous ending is what just leaves you aghast. WTF, there's been so much tragedy, pain in this family, what hope is there for this boy.


I have the book somewhere in my boxes ... the article saying the book spells it out more clearly is misleading, the same shocking reveal takes place at least half way through. I lent it to a friend when we were at USCG Avionics Tech basic training, and we would encounter each other in a student lounge once or twice a day ... he kept telling me, "there's something wrong, I can feel it, but don't tell me," then one day we meet up and he's beside himself in shock, saying "holy s***" and "my God" etc. I don't recall if Tryon explains what is happening. I PREFER Mulligan's adaptation that leave you wondering long after the film is over.


The thing that Mulligan lets leak into your realization is that the boys' father has died recently ... their mother is broken down -- but why? -- then the reveal connects the dots that Father died, then Holland died on their birthday...! No wonder their Mother is holed up in her bedroom. And no wonder Niles is caught in a tailspin of fantasy, or ... something.


I still first and foremost consider it a ghost story. But like the best (cue Jack Clayton's The Innocents, Robert Wise's The Haunting), it is so subtle and open to interpretation that you are left wondering. The current definition of "horror movie" disgusts me, because truly great horror movies leave you with an unsatisfied confusion in the pit of your stomach, or soul if you will.


Agreed, their mother isn't pushed, she stumbles and falls, upset that Niles has the ring and claims that Holland "gave it" to him. The appearance of Holland, "Give it back," is a shocker. What is really happing? But for me the biggest shocker is when Niles and Holland are "talking" in the parlor, a slow pan past them, to Ada on the staircase listening, covering her mouth in silent horror. Classic moment. All the gory, torture, mass-murderer horror movies in the universe can't equal the emotional horror of what that grandmother must be feeling and thinking. Uta Hagen deserves more acclaim for her performance IMHO.

I'll have to watch it again. I was thinking of being frugal (I'm between jobs, just orderd a $600 sub, the complete Jacques Tati set from Criterion), ordering only JTOCOTE so that I could test the new sub with Bernard Herrman's "Atlantis" suite (isolated music track), as I recall he used no less than 5 various organs ... but I think I'll bite the bullet (more like throw caution to the wind) and order this BD.


That's the magic of Mulligan's best films. They just keep delivering on re-viewing, in a way that paint-by-numbers directors (cough, Michael Bay, cough) can't achieve. To Kill A Mockingbird is proof ... one of the 100 most beloved American films, ever. That film has so many well-crafted moments.

 

[Cineman]

I've seen people purposely disguise spoiler text as white-on-white ... so I know that trick to drag-select.


Might try editing your post, copying all the text, pasting into Notepad or the Apple equivalent, then pasting back in. I'll bet there's formatting code that the editor converted from that site's white-on-black format (which I'm glad most people abandoned; it's harder to read on most devices). But no need on my acccount, just future readers/lurkers.


So back to the movie....

Spoiler

I'd have to watch my DVD again (or wait until the BD arrives!).... My recollection, often faulty, is that Mulligan left most things so imprecise that you can view the film as Niles channeling Holland for some acts ... or that Holland is a poltergeist brought to action by Niles ... or that these things are just happening around him and his fantasy that Holland is still alive and keeping him company raises suspicion that it's Holland. And we as audience have to decide for ourselves. The ambiguous ending is what just leaves you aghast. WTF, there's been so much tragedy, pain in this family, what hope is there for this boy.


I have the book somewhere in my boxes ... the article saying the book spells it out more clearly is misleading, the same shocking reveal takes place at least half way through. I lent it to a friend when we were at USCG Avionics Tech basic training, and we would encounter each other in a student lounge once or twice a day ... he kept telling me, "there's something wrong, I can feel it, but don't tell me," then one day we meet up and he's beside himself in shock, saying "holy s***" and "my God" etc. I don't recall if Tryon explains what is happening. I PREFER Mulligan's adaptation that leave you wondering long after the film is over.


The thing that Mulligan lets leak into your realization is that the boys' father has died recently ... their mother is broken down -- but why? -- then the reveal connects the dots that Father died, then Holland died on their birthday...! No wonder their Mother is holed up in her bedroom. And no wonder Niles is caught in a tailspin of fantasy, or ... something.


I still first and foremost consider it a ghost story. But like the best (cue Jack Clayton's The Innocents, Robert Wise's The Haunting), it is so subtle and open to interpretation that you are left wondering. The current definition of "horror movie" disgusts me, because truly great horror movies leave you with an unsatisfied confusion in the pit of your stomach, or soul if you will.


Agreed, their mother isn't pushed, she stumbles and falls, upset that Niles has the ring and claims that Holland "gave it" to him. The appearance of Holland, "Give it back," is a shocker. What is really happing? But for me the biggest shocker is when Niles and Holland are "talking" in the parlor, a slow pan past them, to Ada on the staircase listening, covering her mouth in silent horror. Classic moment. All the gory, torture, mass-murderer horror movies in the universe can't equal the emotional horror of what that grandmother must be feeling and thinking. Uta Hagen deserves more acclaim for her performance IMHO.

I'll have to watch it again. I was thinking of being frugal (I'm between jobs, just orderd a $600 sub, the complete Jacques Tati set from Criterion), ordering only JTOCOTE so that I could test the new sub with Bernard Herrman's "Atlantis" suite (isolated music track), as I recall he used no less than 5 various organs ... but I think I'll bite the bullet (more like throw caution to the wind) and order this BD.


That's the magic of Mulligan's best films. They just keep delivering on re-viewing, in a way that paint-by-numbers directors (cough, Michael Bay, cough) can't achieve. To Kill A Mockingbird is proof ... one of the 100 most beloved American films, ever. That film has so many well-crafted moments.

I would even say the two scenes in TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD where the three kids find themselves in Boo Radley's yard (Jem has to leave his overalls behind because they were stuck in the barbed wire fence) and on Halloween night when Scout and Jem encounter an attacker are both scarier than the vast majority of supposedly scary scenes in modern movies. Mulligan has never been given due credit for his knack for directing horror/suspense scenes.


One other thought on what is or isn't explicitly stated in The Other:

Spoiler

To solve the puzzle you and I both cited re whether or not Niles was possessed by Holland, filling in for Holland, trying to "revive" or replace Holland, only pretending to be Holland, etc., I once watched the movie looking for the most overt signs of evil intent by Niles during or around the deadly events. Honestly, I could not find any. Mulligan was meticulous about not allowing a sign of it to cross the actor's face, to include a frame that might show it intentionally or not. Instead, it is most interesting to me that the only purposeful and overtly evil act or behavior shown the audience of either of the twins, Niles, Holland or Niles as "Holland" is the fuzzy shot (in Niles' vivid memory...or his vivid magination?) of Holland purposely throwing a cat down a deep well. For my part, I believe it is Niles' true memory of Holland and that Mulligan put that shot in there to show how different, how truly reckless and somewhat evil the real Holland was vs Niles as we see him throughout the movie despite what our own imagination has led us to believe...in fact, to want to believe about him as this thriller's climax unfolds. JMHO, of course.

 

[ChromeJob]

Spoiler

Well, refresh my memory of the context of that memory of the cat and the well. I recall a scene when Niles is telling Ada how "bad" Holland is/was, doing mean things, claiming (?) that it's always Holland doing these pranks, and she's shaking him and trying to get him to own up to what she believes he's been doing....? I'm vague on this. In the context of the scene, could Niles be remembering it, imagining it, or...? That article has introduced a motif that I hadn't thought of, that Niles is actually perhaps imagining what we as viewers are seeing, and think is reality.


Reminds me of Videodrome (in which, I beliieve, you're seeing Max's increasing hallucinations and visions created by the Videodrome "signal") and Naked Lunch. (Now I'm getting really anxious to see it again, might watch it BEFORE JTCOTE, even though I want to tune my new subwoofer with the Herrmann score..)

 

[Cineman]

Spoiler

Well, refresh my memory of the context of that memory of the cat and the well. I recall a scene when Niles is telling Ada how "bad" Holland is/was, doing mean things, claiming (?) that it's always Holland doing these pranks, and she's shaking him and trying to get him to own up to what she believes he's been doing....? I'm vague on this. In the context of the scene, could Niles be remembering it, imagining it, or...? That article has introduced a motif that I hadn't thought of, that Niles is actually perhaps imagining what we as viewers are seeing, and think is reality.


Reminds me of Videodrome (in which, I beliieve, you're seeing Max's increasing hallucinations and visions created by the Videodrome "signal") and Naked Lunch. (Now I'm getting really anxious to see it again, might watch it BEFORE JTCOTE, even though I want to tune my new subwoofer with the Herrmann score..)

lol. Our discussion made me pull out my DVD of THE OTHER to check my memory of this...

Spoiler

...and, sure enough, Mulligan's detailed treatment of that and other scenes leads me/us to a conclusion that is not necessarily supported by a more detailed review. In the case of Nile's "memory" of Holland throwing a cat down the well, that scene takes place when Ada takes Niles to Holland's grave to play The Great Game into Holland's "spirit", I suppose, and to remind him that Holland is dead! Niles immediately "remembers" and we see his memory of Holland's death, where Holland falls into that deep well while trying to throw the cat down the well instead..or did he? Look again and it could be that Holland was only trying to put the cat into the bucket on the rim of the well. hmm...

The earlier fuzzy "memory" Niles has of Holland's supposed evil is how their father died. Niles is talking to his conjured up Holland in the cellar and when Holland reaches the top of the steps on the floor of the barn on the other side of the cellar door, Niles sees a fuzzy "memory" of Holland dropping the door on his fathers head while dad was carrying a basket of apples down to the cellar, leading to his fall and death. Through Niles' eyes, we saw Holland kill their dad, remember? Not necessarily! lol. Look again and you will see that the dad had already cleared his head from the trap door opening and, from his point of view, Holland could have naturally assumed he was out of harms way and he was merely closing the door behind him. Just like the death of the old lady during Niles/"Holland's" rat out of a hat trick, it is highly inconclusive that anyone would assume that decision would lead to the death of someone. But it COULD have appeared that way to an observer predisposed to look for evil in a person or, in our case, in a movie of this kind.

The fall of the mother down those steps? I had mis-remembered that she acted aggressively toward Niles. Well, she did in the sense that she was clearly accusatory and threatening to him from his perspective. But Mulligan shoots the scene in such a way, moving the camera up from their clutched hands, struggling over the severed finger that she had found in his room and presented to Niles, that we just can't be sure if he purposely let go of her hands at just the right instant to make her fall down the stairs or did she just let go on her own. And Niles hadn't maneuvered her into that position at the top of the stairs where one step back would cause her to fall. She put herself there. Again, who is to say that his letting go of her hands at just the right moment, if that is what he did, would lead to someone's death or near death in total paralysis instead of merely stepping awkwardly down to the second to top step?

It is all still a beautifully laid out mystery and puzzle for our minds. But each of those deaths and near deaths could not really have been so elaborately pre-planned and executed by some master of evil who somehow knew precisely what damage each of them would cause. Or...could they? lol. One death is handled about as clear as could be, however. That is the death of Ada. She was clearly trying to kill Niles and herself with fire in the barn. But Niles knew he had an exit route from the fire. And there is no evidence that he somehow knew Ada would soon enough be in this state of mind to kill herself and him, so that isn't why he had previously provided an exit for just such an occasion...or is it? lol.

 

[ChromeJob]

Cineman, on 14 Mar 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

Spoiler

... Instead, it is most interesting to me that the only purposeful and overtly evil act or behavior shown the audience of either of the twins, Niles, Holland or Niles as "Holland" is the fuzzy shot (in Niles' vivid memory...or his vivid magination?) of Holland purposely throwing a cat down a deep well. For my part, I believe it is Niles' true memory of Holland and that Mulligan put that shot in there to show how different, how truly reckless and somewhat evil the real Holland was vs Niles as we see him throughout the movie despite what our own imagination has led us to believe...in fact, to want to believe about him as this thriller's climax unfolds. JMHO, of course.

Spoiler

Yeah, I think Niles remembers seeing Holland throwing the cat down the well, and he must've slipped and fallen in.Remember, Ada was telling him to remember the birthday in March.

Got it today. Boy, what a nice AVC transfer, and rich stereo isolated Jerry Goldsmith music track. (E.g. when Ada and NIles play the Game with the crow.) This TT label may be dangerous to my disposable income. The Great Game.


Dang, I wish they'd release Planet of the Apes with an isolated music track...!


I just discovered something (well, I haven't read the booklet so perhaps Twilight Time discloses this), switching to the isolated music track in Chapter 9, 1:08 into the film, there's Goldsmith's music, but the scene just has the sound of wind. So TT has restored Goldsmith's music cues before some of they were cut? Wow. Brilliant.

Spoiler

You were asking how "Holland" knew Mrs. Rowe would have a heart attack. During the trick she says, "You're not gonna pull a rabbit out of that hat?" I wanted to watch again before recollecting that Niles had seen ... sure enough, in the opening scene when "Holland" breaks the jar of piccalilli ferrago, and she sees rats eating it. Her over the top reaction makes clear (That's also the scene where she keeps calling Niles "Holland," though he insists he's Niles.).


I've watched my DVD so many times looking for foreshadowing and set ups. Ada's the only one who talks to Niles about Holland....


I'd forgotten how beautiful Diana Muldaur was.

"God does not mean that we should miss too much, what he takes from us."