The old way of bi-wiring?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Karim Nogas, Dec 5, 2001.

  1. Karim Nogas

    Karim Nogas Stunt Coordinator

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    I have my Mirages bi-wired with my Denon AVR-3200 which is almost 4 years old. There are four banana plug connections on each end for the mains and centre.

    I haven't noticed a new receiver or amp that does the 4-4 connection anymore. It's 4-2, with the amp or receiver only taking a L/R signal and I guess splitting it as it passes to the speakers.

    That's why I got a funny look from a hi-end dealer when I asked for Cardas with 4 plugs on each end. He mentioned something about avoiding using speaker A&B in such a setup (which my Denon doesn't do). All the receivers in his shop has a Speaker A-B setting on the front.

    Is there a reason for this? Is a 4-2 connection still bi-wiring? Does it produce a better sound than 4-4?
     
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Karim, I am too new to hi-fi to have seen 4-4 amps. However, you can still biwire your speakers, but you won't be able to use a manufactured biwire cable. All manufactured biwire cables I have seen have two leads on the amp end and four leads on the speaker end. However, you can just run two separate cables for each speaker in your set-up. Just remove the shorting straps on the speakers when you connect the two speaker cables. Does an amp with 4-4 binding posts have shorting straps between the pairs? If so, then I would guess you would have to remove them too in order to biwire.
     
  3. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    4-4 Connections are still the same as a 4-2 setup because

    those 4 binding posts on the amp terminate into 2 channels

    inside the Receiver anyway. They just added 2 extra posts

    to make life easier. Now some amps will let you use A+B

    terminals that is Bi Amping not Bi Wiring. There aren't many

    Receivers stable enough to drive 4 sets of Main Outputs and

    as such most Receivers don't allow you to use A + B at the

    same time.

    To awnser your question, yes 4-2 works the same as 4-4 works.
     
  4. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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  5. Sebastien David

    Sebastien David Second Unit

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    if you can't use a receiver's a+b connections to bi wire speakers, then how would you do it?

    sorry for such a basic question but i haven't experimented with biwiring yet and will want to when I finally get my RF-7s.
     
  6. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Brian,

    Yep your right.. it is still bi wiring when using A+B but

    if you have a dedicated Zone 2 output that can function at

    the same time as your main zone with a selectable source then

    that would be internal Bi-Amping.
     
  7. Thomas_Berg

    Thomas_Berg Screenwriter

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    can someone post a pic of what youre talking about please? i'm interested in bi-wiring when i upgrade from my JBL NSP1 speakers next year and need to think about how i'll do it. thanks!
     
  8. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Tom,
    Here is a picture of both ends of my wires that I run to
    my mains. Notice one end has 4 connectors while the other
    end has 2.. That is Bi-Wiring.. The theory is that you get
    better imaging and seperation.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Bernard L

    Bernard L Stunt Coordinator

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    so that's bi-wiring eh?

    what'd the difference between that and jamming 2 gold plates in between the 4 connector thingies on the speakers to make a connection?
     
  10. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Bernanrd,

    Yep that’s Bi-Wiring. As I said previously the “theory” is that you now

    Have 2 signal paths that supposedly aid in imaging and separation. Can

    This be proven? Nope… In fact you couldn’t prove to me that it even works.

    But since I make my own cables it was cheap enough that I made the cables

    And if I saw an improvement or not, was not an issue. It looks cool having

    All these FAT cables going to your speakers.
     
  11. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    ----------------------------------------------------------

    so that's bi-wiring eh?

    what'd the difference between that and jamming 2 gold plates in between the 4 connector thingies on the speakers to make a connection?

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Bernard - Excellent question, and the answer is that as long as you are using sufficent guage wire (12 - 16 depending on the length of the run) there is no difference.

    Regards, Nick
     
  12. Jeff Adams

    Jeff Adams Screenwriter

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    So Nick, Are you saying biwiring is waste of time and money?
     
  13. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    I will add one point about biwiring, and I apologize in advance if it is too far off topic. Some people say that it is better to biwire with two separate cables per speaker than one biwire cable having four leads at the speaker end. It is said that insufficient shielding within a single biwire cable can lead to crosstalk between the high-pass and low-pass ends, which degrades the signals going to the tweeter and driver. I have limited experience with biwiring, so I can't say from firsthand experience that crosstalk is a legitimate problem, but I have read about it enough. To avoid the possibility of crosstalk, I would start off buying a pair of standard speaker cables with banana plug terminations. If I were happy with the sound from those cables, I would explore biwiring by purchasing another pair of the same cables, this time with spade terminations. On the amp, you can insert the spades "under" the binding posts that are already housing the banana plugs. Just remove the shorting straps from the speakers, and you are set. If you don't like the sound of the biwired configuration, return the cables with spade terminations and stick to the pair with bananas.
     
  14. Sonnie Parker

    Sonnie Parker Second Unit

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    If you have 4 + 4 speaker outputs (for your mains) on your amp, as I do with my Sunfire Cinema Grand (voltage source and current source), then you can purchase Tara Labs Prism Bi-wire speaker cable which has 4 wires on each end. I have used them for approximately 5 years. Whether there's a differnce or not I couldn't tell you because I've never used anything but bi-wire.

    SP
     
  15. karthik

    karthik Auditioning

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