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The Official "What Speakers or Subwoofer Should I Buy" Assistance Thread (1 Viewer)

JohnRice

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I really love the clarity of the SB-4000 but I really have to crank it up match the output level of the PB-3000.
Those levels mean nothing.

I'll say that again. They... mean... nothing. There are so many variables in calibrating a system, and those are different subs with different amps, drivers, enclosures, designs. If you had to turn the 4000 up to +10 I'd be concerned that something was wrong.

My room is about 20x25 and my SB-16 Ultras are at -12 and -13. That's just the setting that's needed. Nothing more.

Ask @John Dirk about the SB-4000s. He has a pair in his HT. 20x30 is a pretty big room, but not much larger than mine, which is also open somewhat, and my SB-16s never even break a sweat. I was hoping I'd (along with Dave Upton) finally convinced you the common misconception about sealed subs is exactly that, a misconception. A truly capable sealed model can and will match a ported one in every meaningful way, and exceed it in overall sound quality. You can energize a room cheaper with ported subs, but you can do it much better, though more expensively, with sealed ones.
 

John Dirk

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Digging deeper into these SVS subs.....

Would a pair of PB-3000s compare to a pair of SB-16s when it comes to output, room filling sound, and deep bass?

Room size: 20'×30'

I really love the clarity of the SB-4000 but I really have to crank it up match the output level of the PB-3000.

Additionally, the physical size of the PB-3000 is as big as I'm willing to go.

I want to have my cake and eat it too.

Decisions, decisions, decisions...
Your room is quite a bit larger than mine, which is about 12 x 11 but I still find it odd you're having to crank up the SB4000 as mine stay at -20dB on the subs and between -8 and -4 on my processor, depending on the content. I don't know that you'll really be able to make meaningful judgements until you have a competent set of towers to compliment your sub. The Klipsch's you're currently using aren't capable enough in the lower range and [I suspect] too much is being left to the subs. My suggestion would be to concentrate on your L & R speakers before making a final decision on a sub but, for a room that size i would definitely go with at least duals.
 

Dave Upton

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This seems more like you have your trim set incorrectly prior to running audyssey. Too high perhaps. Have you tried disabling audyssey and running a test tone to get the subs to approx. 78dB before audyssey? I've seen audyssey do some truly horrific stuff to subs that are too hot initially and it kills the bass.
 

JohnRice

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I never use Audyssey to calibrate sub levels, so I forget that it can completely screw them up. So yeah, it could be a serious calibration error.
 
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Those levels mean nothing.

I'll say that again. They... mean... nothing. There are so many variables in calibrating a system, and those are different subs with different amps, drivers, enclosures, designs. If you had to turn the 4000 up to +10 I'd be concerned that something was wrong.

My room is about 20x25 and my SB-16 Ultras are at -12 and -13. That's just the setting that's needed. Nothing more.

Ask @John Dirk about the SB-4000s. He has a pair in his HT. 20x30 is a pretty big room, but not much larger than mine, which is also open somewhat, and my SB-16s never even break a sweat. I was hoping I'd (along with Dave Upton) finally convinced you the common misconception about sealed subs is exactly that, a misconception. A truly capable sealed model can and will match a ported one in every meaningful way, and exceed it in overall sound quality. You can energize a room cheaper with ported subs, but you can do it much better, though more expensively, with sealed ones.
I'm completely new at this so please excuse my ignorance. New to higher end audio gear, not to music. I've never owned an AVR or room corrected anything before so... yeah, that's why I'm here. :)

The room I'm testing in is not the room where they will end up. I'm building a built-in entertainment center to stuff all this new gear in. The current room I'm testing in is a rectangle sideways vs the finally room which is a rectangle longways. The reason the SB-4000 required -4 db volume set to reach 75 dB was due to where it was placed in the room, in the middle. The PB-3000 was in the corner of the room where the walls are concrete. Volume on the PB-3000 was set to -25 dB to reach 75 dB, with a -2.5 trim. Swapping the subs around ( SB-4000 in the corner) it was a night and day difference. Now volume on the SB-4000 is -17 dB to reach 75 dB and -4 trim. Which gives me much more headroom and dramatically increased the amount of bass I can feel in the room. Very satisfying and clean. The PB-3000 is getting boxed up and sent back to SVS. While it was fun to listen to, I wasn't able to replicated the quality bass of the SB-4000.

Your room is quite a bit larger than mine, which is about 12 x 11 but I still find it odd you're having to crank up the SB4000 as mine stay at -20dB on the subs and between -8 and -4 on my processor, depending on the content. I don't know that you'll really be able to make meaningful judgements until you have a competent set of towers to compliment your sub. The Klipsch's you're currently using aren't capable enough in the lower range and [I suspect] too much is being left to the subs. My suggestion would be to concentrate on your L & R speakers before making a final decision on a sub but, for a room that size i would definitely go with at least duals.

I agree, my main speakers are not quite up to the task and the sub is picking up most of its slack. I'm looking at a set of Prime Pinnacle speakers for mains and already picked up an Ultra Center. I was looking hard at the Ultra Towers but they don't really fit in well with my built-in entertainment center design. Not enough space around the 8-inch drivers I think.

This seems more like you have your trim set incorrectly prior to running audyssey. Too high perhaps. Have you tried disabling audyssey and running a test tone to get the subs to approx. 78dB before audyssey? I've seen audyssey do some truly horrific stuff to subs that are too hot initially and it kills the bass.
Not sure what too high equates to. Currently, Audyssey set trim to -4.

Now the real question is... Do I pick up an SB-16 to compare against the SB-4000 before I decide which pair to keep as duals?
 

JohnRice

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I'm completely new at this so please excuse my ignorance. New to higher end audio gear, not to music. I've never owned an AVR or room corrected anything before so... yeah, that's why I'm here. :)

The room I'm testing in is not the room where they will end up. I'm building a built-in entertainment center to stuff all this new gear in. The current room I'm testing in is a rectangle sideways vs the finally room which is a rectangle longways. The reason the SB-4000 required -4 db volume set to reach 75 dB was due to where it was placed in the room, in the middle. The PB-3000 was in the corner of the room where the walls are concrete.
No apology needed. I'm the one who can be prickly.

The original placement of the 4000 was definitely a problem. You almost never want to put a sub in the middle of a wall. Think of bass like a wave pool with the waves radiating from the subwoofer. They radiate out, hit walls and bounce back. If the sub is in the middle of a wall, the waves tend to either bounce back and be canceled out by another wave, or they hit in time with another wave and amplify each other. Both are bad. Corner placement tends to be the best/easiest location, since it reduces that so much. It's also good that it's a rectangular room. Often the best location for dual subs in a rectangular room is opposing corners, diagonally across the room.

Dave Upton is actually the expert on sub/room integration. I understand a lot of the principles, but he's actually integrated a lot of systems.
 
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Well.... I've been tweaking, testing subwoofer placement, downloaded MultiEQ, ran single SB4000, single PB3000, single PB3000 sealed mode, duals with SB4000/PB3000 sealed mode, ordered a UMIK-1 USB mic for REW tuning, yada, yada, yada......

A pair of Prime Pinnacles will be here on Friday to accompany the Ultra Center.

Oh what fun :)
 
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John Dirk

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Well.... I've been tweaking, testing subwoofer placement, downloaded MultiEQ, ran single SB4000, single PB3000, single PB3000 sealed mode, duals with SB4000/PB3000 sealed mode, ordered a UMIK-1 USB mic for REW tuning, yada, yada, yada......

A pair of Prime Pinnacles will be here on Friday to accompany the Ultra Center.

Oh what fun :)
Congrats. Anxious to hear your impressions of the Pinnacles.
 

bradypunch

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Sorry, I meant to post in this thread....

Looking for some advice on (possibly) upgrading my home theater system subwoofers (I say possibly as I haven’t decided if I am going to keep, or get rid of my theater room altogether). If I keep it, I’ll upgrade to Atmos by adding height speakers to my current 7.2 configuration. I am leaning towards buying 2 matching subs, but I’m not sure. Here are some of my details:

1. Budget: $2,000 (ish)

2. Size requirements/limits: None

3. Room size & specs: Approximately 20x12x8 (1,920 cubic feet) – concrete basement floor.

4. Primary uses: 60% HT/TV viewing, 20% music, 20% gaming.

5. Listening habits: We watch all different movie types; I also like to watch concert DVDs and stream music at SPL levels. I want to be able to feel the bass slam in my chest when rocking out!

6. Appearance requirements:
I don’t care how it looks.

7. Timeframe: Not in a hurry to get it right away.

8. My equipment list:
Receiver: Denon AVR-X7200WA

L/R: (2) B&W DM603 S3

Center: B&W LCR600 S3

Surrounds: (4) B&W DM600 S3

Sub1: SVS PC-2000 (older ported cylinder sub – not the pro model)

Sub2: Klipsch 10” ported (cheap BestBuy model from aprx. 2010)



Projector: Epson 5030UB
Samsung Blu-ray Player

Xbox One
 

turtuv

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hi guys, I'm new and I'm a newbie. I'm not into the home theater world, but I want to learn since I have the passions for the movies and videogames. I always used a normal soundbar + subwoofer, but now I would like to upgrade a little bit without spent too much money. can you give me some advice? thank you a lot
 

theJman

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I am leaning towards buying 2 matching subs, but I’m not sure. Here are some of my details:

1. Budget: $2,000 (ish)
3. Room size & specs: Approximately 20x12x8 (1,920 cubic feet) – concrete basement floor.
5. Listening habits: We watch all different movie types; I also like to watch concert DVDs and stream music at SPL levels. I want to be able to feel the bass slam in my chest when rocking out!
This combination of items is going to present some challenges. Concrete is a very solid, stable platform and unfortunately that type of structure sucks the life out of bass, especially lower bass. Any attempt to overcome it requires a substantial investment using very large subwoofers, similar to this one. It's smaller brother might work, but given you bolded the "chest slam" line in your original post my guess is you're looking for an enveloping experience. Despite how powerful the 2400 is I have some reservations that a single would be able to best concrete (one of those is about 75% more than your budget).

An alternative to consider are tactile transducers, sometime referred to as 'bass shakers' or 'butt kickers'. They're electronic components that attach to your seats and provide small vibrations similar to what a subwoofer does, the difference being concrete doesn't affect them because they couple directly to the furniture.
 

theJman

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hi guys, I'm new and I'm a newbie. I'm not into the home theater world, but I want to learn since I have the passions for the movies and videogames. I always used a normal soundbar + subwoofer, but now I would like to upgrade a little bit without spent too much money. can you give me some advice? thank you a lot
Welcome to the forum.

In order for anyone to assist you'll have to provide information specific to your particular situation. Please read the first post in this thread and reply with answers to those questions. Using that information people will be able to give advice and suggestions
 

Pnochichi

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Starting to build out a new living room system after many years away. Back in the day I had a set of Energy C-6s that I really loved powered by an ATI 1505 with a few monoblocks for additional surrounds. I loved the warm sound of the energy set with a good sub pair (HSUs and eventually an IB setup when those were popular). I'm planning to start with the speakers this time and build out from there since the are so key, and then I'll add gear that aligns well with them. Not at all sure what the current state of gear is and what would be the modern equivalent, but that at least gives you an idea of what my taste was way back when. Happy to start with front 3 or 5 and build up from there as needed as well.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

What are you looking for (Speakers, Subwoofer or Both)? Speakers

Primary Use: 80% TV and Movies / 20% Gaming

Desired Configuration: 7.1

Room Size:
13x18

Is the room open to other areas of your home: yes. Front right open to kitchen

Do you already have an AV receiver or amplifier? No

What's your budget (low to high): 0-$5000 Not afraid to buy used.

Any special requirements (Wife Acceptance)? Nope
 

turtuv

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Welcome to the forum.

In order for anyone to assist you'll have to provide information specific to your particular situation. Please read the first post in this thread and reply with answers to those questions. Using that information people will be able to give advice and suggestions
thank you, i'll do.

What are you looking for (Speakers, Subwoofer or Both)? Both

Primary Use: 20% Music, 80% Movies and Games

Desired Configuration: 5.1

Room Size: 19 square meters

Is the room open to other areas of your home: Yes

Do you already have an AV receiver or amplifier? No

What's your budget (low to high): 600$

Any special requirements (Wife Acceptance)? Nope
 

theJman

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I'm planning to start with the speakers this time and build out from there since the are so key, and then I'll add gear that aligns well with them. Happy to start with front 3 or 5 and build up from there as needed as well.

Desired Configuration: 7.1

So are you looking for 3, 5 or 7 speakers? Your budget is such that there are solid choices for all three, but the suggestions will differ depending upon how many you're looking to purchase now.
 

theJman

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thank you, i'll do.

What are you looking for (Speakers, Subwoofer or Both)? Both

Primary Use: 20% Music, 80% Movies and Games

Desired Configuration: 5.1

Room Size: 19 square meters

Is the room open to other areas of your home: Yes

Do you already have an AV receiver or amplifier? No

What's your budget (low to high): 600$

Any special requirements (Wife Acceptance)? Nope

Doing some crude math suggests your room is just below 500 cubic feet; 19 meters x 3.2 feet per meter = 60.8, 60.8 x 8 feet (typical ceiling height in the US) = 486.4 ft ^3. Assuming that formula is correct the room is not large, which is good, but those calculations may not really indicate the true size because it's open to other areas in your home. For speakers that can be an issue, for subwoofers it's definitely an issue.

If I understand correctly you're looking for 5 speakers, a subwoofer and receiver for $600?
 

Pnochichi

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So are you looking for 3, 5 or 7 speakers? Your budget is such that there are solid choices for all three, but the suggestions will differ depending upon how many you're looking to purchase now.
I'm pretty flexible and I imagine I'll spread it out a little over time. Maybe front 3 first with a receiver with pre-outs. Then a first sub. Surrounds. Amp(s). Processor. Projector. But I'm happy to buy in bigger bunches if I decide what I want and find a good deal. So the budget is for either the front 3 or maybe 5. I'd obviously love to find the best bang for the buck I can but I'm not sure what that sweet spot is these days where you get the most for your money and spending more costs a lot more for minimal improvement.

thanks!
 

turtuv

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Doing some crude math suggests your room is just below 500 cubic feet; 19 meters x 3.2 feet per meter = 60.8, 60.8 x 8 feet (typical ceiling height in the US) = 486.4 ft ^3. Assuming that formula is correct the room is not large, which is good, but those calculations may not really indicate the true size because it's open to other areas in your home. For speakers that can be an issue, for subwoofers it's definitely an issue.

If I understand correctly you're looking for 5 speakers, a subwoofer and receiver for $600?
hi, sorry for the late reply. i don't understand the US metric, but i confirm that my room is not large, and the ceiling is about 3.5/4meters high. right now i have a Samsung 2.1 soundbar + sbuwoofer and it sound good, no problem with the subwoofer. but now i want to upgrade at least to 5.1. just yesterday i saw a JBL 9.1 soundbar + subwoofer and it seems really good. do you know it? can you tell me more about it?

product-jpeg-500x500.jpeg
 

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