The Official 2019 Oscars Nomination Announcements Discussions & Predictions Thread (1 Viewer)

[bujaki]

I would rather watch Christopher Robin than the live-action shorts that @Adam Lenhardt described any day. I didn't see Mary Queen of Scots or Border, but have to imagine they'd be more entertaining than those shorts too.

I don't mind depressing themes, but I do mind mediocrity. YMMV.

 

[bujaki]

I'm one of those plebes who has only watched one film from that list of "bests".

And you can guess which one. It has Black and Panther in it.

The rest of them hold zero interest for me. To paraphrase Costello, "I am a baaaaaaad film fan".

Those "bests" would just cause me to do this.....

One person's dross is another's treasure. YMMV.

 

[Edwin-S]

One person's dross is another's treasure. YMMV.

I cannot dispute that. Not that I think "Black Panther" deserved to be mominated any more than the others.

BP is on that list for political reasons not because it deserves to be.

 

[Carlo_M]

I don't mind depressing themes, but I do mind mediocrity. YMMV.

While they are bleak and depressing, mediocre is not what I would use to describe them. Especially not Detainment and Skin.

 

[bujaki]

I'm one of those plebes who has only watched one film from that list of "bests".

And you can guess which one. It has Black and Panther in it.

The rest of them hold zero interest for me. To paraphrase Costello, "I am a baaaaaaad film fan".

Those "bests" would just cause me to do this.....

One person's dross is another's treasure. YMM

I cannot dispute that. Not that I think "Black Panther" deserved to be mominated any more than the others.

BP is on that list for political reasons not because it deserves to be.

Most likely. I still enjoyed it while watching it. I must admit that I hardly remember it now in great detail as opposed to some of the other nominees. In my opinion, only 3 movies from the list deserve to be remembered.

 

[bujaki]

While they are bleak and depressing, mediocre is not what I would use to describe them. Especially not Detainment and Skin.

I meant the other films, not the shorts. I'm looking forward to the shorts.

 

[Edwin-S]

There is only two that will be remembered from that list: Bohemian Rhapsody and Black Panther.

And Bohemian Rhapsody apparently was a travesty when it came to accurately recounting Freddie Mercury's life. At least from the criticism that I have seen on the net.

 

[Jake Lipson]

There is only two that will be remembered from that list: Bohemian Rhapsody and Black Panther.

What makes you think that A Star is Born won't be remembered? Even if it had been poorly received -- which it wasn't -- it would be notable in film history for being the latest in the line of films of A Star is Born, which at this point is a Hollywood tradition which I'm sure will ultimately recur again in another 30 years or so for the next generation.

But even beyond that lineage, it was a big hit with both critics and audiences in its own right. It established Bradley Cooper as a talented director and Lady Gaga as a serious actress. Whether you like it or not is a separate discussion, but it is absolutely going to be remembered.

 

[Edwin-S]

#4 of the same story. Yes, very memorable indeed.

 

[Carlo_M]

I meant the other films, not the shorts. I'm looking forward to the shorts.

I look forward to your impressions. I've seen the shorts 3 or 4 years running now at the local Nuart, and this is the first time that I found all five to be uniformly good-to-great, with the top two I listed being IMO impressive tour-de-forces.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

And it used to be a kind of marker that the films with the most nominations would generally win best picture and the most Oscars. Most nominations indicates broad support.

It indicates passionate support from a lot of different branches of the Academy, and speaks well of the film in the technical areas, but doesn't necessarily indicate consensus within the Academy.

I've mentioned this before, since the weighted ballot system of voting for Best Picture in 2009, there have been no sweeps of awards for the Best Picture winner. We've had several 3 Oscar Best picture winners and one 2 Oscar Best Picture winner. From 1976, when Rocky won 3 to 2005, when Crash won 3, it was rare for the Best Picture winner to earn less than 4 Oscars. That was a 29 year period! The year before the weighted ballot system Slumdog Millionaire won 8 Oscars. The best picture winners since then haven't come close. I don't see the winners as having the widest support for the most part.

It's because Best Picture requires broad support, while the other categories require the largest plurality. If you're an Academy voter, and you're passionate about a film, you'll probably vote it for it in all or most of the categories where it's been nominated. If there's enough people who feel that way, you get a sweep. But then you get to Best Picture, and if the people who didn't share that opinion all rank it low on their weighted ballots, it probably won't prevail even if it got the most #1 votes.

BP is on that list for political reasons not because it deserves to be.

There is only two that will be remembered from that list: Bohemian Rhapsody and Black Panther.

One one hand, you're saying that Black Panther didn't deserve a Best Picture nomination and that it was only nominated for political reasons. On the other hand, you're saying that Black Panther is only of only two Best Picture nominees likely to have any lasting cultural significance. Isn't that a contradiction? The only deserving Best Picture nominees are movies that will be quickly forgotten?

People wring their hands about Rocky winning Best Picture in 1976, but there's little question in my mind that -- even up against Taxi Driver -- it was the most impactful movie of 1976. If being accessible is an automatic detriment to being "best", then the definition of "best" is faulty.

What makes you think that A Star is Born won't be remembered? Even if it had been poorly received -- which it wasn't -- it would be notable in film history for being the latest in the line of films of A Star is Born, which at this point is a Hollywood tradition which I'm sure will ultimately recur again in another 30 years or so for the next generation.

I think it will be remembered alongside the Judy Garland version as the best of the bunch.

Of the nominated films, it's my favorite and the one I'm rooting for on Sunday.

 

[Edwin-S]

One one hand, you're saying that Black Panther didn't deserve a Best Picture nomination and that it was only nominated for political reasons. On the other hand, you're saying that Black Panther is only of only two Best Picture nominees likely to have any lasting cultural significance. Isn't that a contradiction? The only deserving Best Picture nominees are movies that will be quickly forgotten?

Not necessarily. I think the film will be remembered as the one and only Superhero genre film to be nominated for a Best Picture, not for whether it actually deserved to be there.

I finally watched the film and from a purely objective point of view is was neither better nor worse than any the Marvel films that preceded it. In fact, I think there were several Marvel fllms that were a lot better than Black Panther.

BP is on the list because of who made it. Objectively, if th exact same film had been made with an all white crew and cast and was titled White Tiger does anyone actually think it would have been nominated for a BP award? Really.

 

[Edwin-S]

Frankly, there was a superhero film with a Black protagonist that deserved to be on that BP list more than Black Panther and that was SM: Into The Spiderverse. But of course that can't be allowed because some actors might get all butthurt that a mere voice actor and an animator could manage to create a compelling human character that wasn't actual flesh and blood.

Or that a film crew could make a good story that didn't use live actors.

 

[Jake Lipson]

BP is on the list because of who made it. Objectively, if th exact same film had been made with an all white crew and cast and was titled White Tiger does anyone actually think it would have been nominated for a BP award? Really.

You're going to have to clarify your first sentence there. Ryan Coogler directed Black Panther, but neither of his previous films were nominated for Best Picture even though I think both deserved to be. Marvel made Black Panther, but none of their other 19 films were nominated for Best Picture.

Also, your hypothetical is literally impossible. Even in hypothetical terms, it would not be possible to make the same film with a white cast and crew because the film speaks to the black experience and cultural identity of being a black person. A film that speaks about the experience of being a white person would be a very different film.

#4 of the same story. Yes, very memorable indeed.

Just because it has been made before doesn't mean the new one is not memorable. A Star Is Born obviously adapts very well to the times that it's being told in, so each generation gets to have their version of it. I'm sure that this one will continue to resonate, just as the previous versions have, and it will resonate again in 30 years when someone else comes along with a new take and it gets the fifth remake. Some stories just work, and this is one of them.

But of course that can't be allowed because some actors might get all butthurt that a mere voice actor and an animator could manage to create a compelling human character that wasn't actual flesh and blood. Or that a film crew could make a good story that didn't use live actors.

This is the same Academy that nominated Beauty and the Beast for Best Picture in 1991 when there were only five possible nominees. And, yes, they nominated Up and Toy Story 3 when there were a fixed ten nominees. There have also been multiple animated nominees in other categories over the years, none of which would have happened if the Academy was "butthurt" as you suggest.

I love animation just as much as you do. But to suggest that Academy members would be upset that "a film crew could make a good story that didn't use human actors" is simply wrong. Are there strides to be made in recognizing animation across the board? Yes, absolutely. Does that mean the entire medium is fundamentally disrespected by the Academy? No.

On another note, voters' ballots were due by 5pm Pacific Time today, so voting is now officially closed. There is now a definitive answer to who won; it's up to PricewaterhouseCoopers to figure out what it is, but it exists now.

 

[Edwin-S]

Were his other films made with an all Black cast (- the villain) and crew? It was more than just him.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Were his other films made with an all Black cast (- the villain) and crew? It was more than just him.

I don't know the exact ethnic breakdown for everyone who worked on Fruitvale Station and Creed. However, Coogler does work with a lot of the same collaborators from film to film, so yeah, I would guess that there was a fair amount of black representation on those films.

You seem to be implying that it was nominated simply because it had a black cast and crew. I won't speak for the Academy because I am not a member and don't know what they're thinking, but the suggestion that the Academy nominated it just because it is a "black film" shortchanges its value and its cultural impact. If Beale Street Could Talk, Blindspotting and Sorry to Bother You are films that deal with the black experience this year which were not nominated for Best Picture. As you noted, Spider-Verse, with a half-black protagonist, was not nominated. So they're not simply nominating films with black characters. They didn't have to nominate Black Panther. Some people would have been annoyed if they didn't, but that's happened before. Obviously, enough voting members of the Academy felt it was worth including, so they included it.

 

[bujaki]

I'

I don't know the exact ethnic breakdown for everyone who worked on Fruitvale Station and Creed. However, Coogler does work with a lot of the same collaborators from film to film, so yeah, I would guess that there was a fair amount of black representation on those films.

You seem to be implying that it was nominated simply because it had a black cast and crew. I won't speak for the Academy because I am not a member and don't know what they're thinking, but the suggestion that the Academy nominated it just because it is a "black film" shortchanges its value and its cultural impact. If Beale Street Could Talk, Blindspotting and Sorry to Bother You are films that deal with the black experience this year which were not nominated for Best Picture. As you noted, Spider-Verse, with a half-black protagonist, was not nominated. So they're not simply nominating films with black characters. They didn't have to nominate Black Panther. Some people would have been annoyed if they didn't, but that's happened before. Obviously, enough voting members of the Academy felt it was worth including, so they included it.

I'd have rather seen any of the other films Jake mentioned above as a nominee over Black Panther. Or many of the other nominees for that matter.

 

[Wayne_j]

Never Look Away is finally opening near me this Friday so I will be able to finish watching all the nominees for Foreign Language and Cinematography.

I'm watching Shoplifters right now.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Never Look Away is finally opening near me this Friday so I will be able to finish watching all the nominees for Foreign Language and Cinematography.

Lucky you. That is not opening here until next Friday, March 1, so it's literally impossible for me to complete those categories prior to the ceremony. Please do let us know how it is.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Also, your hypothetical is literally impossible. Even in hypothetical terms, it would not be possible to make the same film with a white cast and crew because the film speaks to the black experience and cultural identity of being a black person. A film that speaks about the experience of being a white person would be a very different film.

I couldn't have said it better. This film was speaking to African identity, and African American identity, and the tensions and contradictions between the two. It is such a specific story, with such a specific cultural tapestry. The screenplay is such a personal expression of Coogler's thoughts and worldview.

A white production team could have made a Black Panther film. It might even have been a good film. But it wouldn't be this film. If anybody other than Ryan Coogler had made a Black Panther film, it wouldn't be this film.

My favorite film of 2018 was Avengers: Infinity War. That was an astounding creative achievement. But there's no question in my mind that Black Panther is the more personal film, that its success is more driven by its director and the specific people he hired to lead the various departments.