What's new

The 'New' vs. 'Old' Technology Amp Sound... (1 Viewer)

Alex F.

Second Unit
Joined
Aug 29, 1999
Messages
377
Chu:

So you are personally vouching for the listening acumen of this couple? It escapes me why you feel that what these two people can or cannot hear should dictate the actions of everybody else in the world.

Stop the presses, audio hobbyists: Your efforts and experience evaluating different components to find the ones you like have been made moot by two people you don't know from Adam.

Unlike you, Chu, I do not live my audio life based on third-hand information about what two total strangers said.
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
Only two possible answers:

1. Crap sound system like source or speakers
2. Tom has hearing issues
Just to set the record straight, I've read about that incident. Tom Nousaine wasn't the listener. The listener was the owner of a High End stereo store who had very vehemently told everyone in an audio newsgroup how superior Pass amplifiers were (he was a Pass dealer). He was a self proclaimed "golden eared" audiophile, and the setup was indeed High End.

The fact that the listener was exactly the kind of person who would pooh pooh others for failing DBTs because of their "crap sound systems or sources" or because they weren't "trained audiophiles" like himself is what made his failure so interesting (and amusing).
 

Alex F.

Second Unit
Joined
Aug 29, 1999
Messages
377
Robert:

Thank you for the clarification. The story changes by the hour. Now we are expected to change our belief systems and dismiss our personal experiences due to the listening ability of but one person.

If true, it is indeed an amusing story.
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
"Changes"? What "changes"? There are no "changes" to "the story". "The story", as you call it, has been told accurately all along, notwithstanding wrong assumptions about bad equipment and Nousaine being the listener.
 

Lewis Besze

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 28, 1999
Messages
3,134
Alex just out of curiosity,would you be "influenced" by a guy's opinion on stuff, that/who you've never met/seen[person and gear],but read about his reviews/opinions before,and happened to "like"/agreed what he had to say?
 

Alex F.

Second Unit
Joined
Aug 29, 1999
Messages
377
Robert:

The changes were in the versions told you and Chu. Has this story been published in a legitimate publication where it can be verified? Or is it hearsay?

Lewis:

A reviewer's opinions are useless to me unless I have, over a long period, read his descriptions of specific gear that matched with my own findings. Otherwise, I do not know if a given reviewer hears as I do. There are a few reviewers I find helpful (Wes Phillips and Anthony Cordesman, for example) and others I do not (Thomas Norton and Corey Greenberg).

How much do you know about the listener(s) in the previously cited story? Do you have a history with him/her/them? Do you trust him/her/them? Do you know for sure that he/she/them truly listen well and have good hearing? Most importantly, why does anybody even care about what he/she/them heard or didn't hear?
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
Has this story been published in a legitimate publication where it can be verified? Or is it hearsay?
There is no hearsay involved with this story. It was directly related in audio newsgroups first hand by Tom Steve Maki, Nousaine and the listener, Steve Zipser. These were the people directly involved. There was no "third party" who had to verify anything. It would be like you posting here that you just bought an SVS subwoofer, and me saying that it's only "hearsay" that you bought it, because your statement about what you bought hasn't been "published".
 

Lee Scoggins

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2001
Messages
6,395
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Real Name
Lee
The fact that the listener was exactly the kind of person who would pooh pooh others for failing DBTs because of their "crap sound systems or sources" or because they weren't "trained audiophiles" like himself is what made his failure so interesting (and amusing).
The fact is that the resolution of the system is very important for hearing differences across groups of people. Also, experienced listeners will hear more differences is an established fact recently confirmed by the Northwestern University study I offered a link to earlier.
 

Graeme Shiomi

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
70
So Robert, in your estimation we should buy the cheapest equipment we can find, that has the minimum power we require, and all the features we need? Any money spent on gear above this minimum level is pure waste?

Honestly, just asking if that is what you believe. Not going to make a judgement on it.

Graeme
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
So Robert, in your estimation we should buy the cheapest equipment we can find, that has the minimum power we require, and all the features we need? Any money spent on gear above this minimum level is pure waste?
Nope, never said that. I posted only to correct Lee's bad (and automatic) assumptions about what took place at what Chu described. I'll thank you not to make even worse assumptions than Lee did.
 

Lee Scoggins

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2001
Messages
6,395
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Real Name
Lee
I posted only to correct Lee's bad (and automatic) assumptions about what took place at what Chu described. I'll thank you not to make even worse assumptions than Lee did.
I think this is unfair characterization of what I said. First, Alex was the one questioning the changing story. Second, I never questioned Chu's recounting, only the bias of Tom (and also his buddy Zipser) based on my prior experience with them. And I wanted to know more about the details. Unfortunately you won't provide a link. Why?

This shows the lack of intellectual capital you are bringing to the debate and I think the thread has run its course.

I'm going to work on other discussions going forward in celebration of my 1,000th post.

As Linda Richman would say, talk amongst yourselves...
 

Graeme Shiomi

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 7, 2001
Messages
70
Robert,
Please show me where an assumption was made. I asked whether or not you believed something. I did NOT say that you did. I asked, to verify if my impression of what you were saying was correct.
I'll thank you to read what I actually say before biting my head off. :)
However, regarding Chu's example, wouldn't that suggest that we should only buy the cheapest gear, that has our minimum power and feature requirements? If not, why not?
Graeme
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
I'll thank you not to make even worse assumptions than Lee did.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is unfair characterization of what I said....I never questioned Chu's recounting, only the bias of Tom (and also his buddy Zipser
Lee,
You responded to Chu's post by assuming that a) Nousaine was the listener and b) It must have been a "crappy" system. Those were bad assumptions on your part. You asked if there was a link. You did not ask FOR the link. It's not hard to find in Deja. Here it is:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=no...ust.net&rnum=3
And you really need to stop making bad assumptions. Nousaine and Zipser weren't "buddies". Nousaine is a rigorous audiophile objectivist. Zipser was a dedicated believer (like yourself) in certain types of audio equipment sounding different. This made them philosophical antagonists, not buddies.
 

Lee Scoggins

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2001
Messages
6,395
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Real Name
Lee
You asked if there was a link. You did not ask FOR the link.
Well excuuuuuze me. That was uncalled for.

Look, I stand by my earlier assertion. If one cannot tell the difference between a Yamaha amp and Pass Alephs, then one has some trouble either with hearing or with severe system problems.

Frankly, I hate Dunlavy speakers based on many auditions and I particularly don't find Dunlavy to be particularly knowledgeable about cable sonic differences either. I had a good friend buy a $10,000 pair of SC-IVs over my strenuous objections and they sucked. We spent the better part of six months trying to get good sound out of them and we just gave up. We tried every amp under the sun on loan and could not make a dent. The resale value of these turkeys is appropriately low.

But even with those shitty speakers, one can always tell the difference between Pass Aleph and old Yamaha receivers.
 

RobertR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 19, 1998
Messages
10,675
Do you consider Pass amplifiers and Dunlavy speakers "low resolution"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course not
Now you seem to be saying the opposite, calling them "shitty speakers". BTW, I do need to clarify something. They were Duntech speakers designed by John Dunlavy, but apparently you hate his approach to speaker design (even though his speakers are HIGHLY praised by the High end cognesceti, and are used in Wide Screen Review's reference system).
 

Lee Scoggins

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2001
Messages
6,395
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Real Name
Lee
Lee: What's funny about your statement is that prior to taking the test, Zipser had EXACTLY the same attitude:
It does not follow that I am wrong in my statement.

Let's take this to the next logical level.

Let's assume a hypothetical (and a big fing stretch):

The Yamaha integrated amp is equivalent to a $12K Pass Labs Aleph amplifier.

Would you not buy the cheaper product and use the difference for music or speakers?

Or maybe all speakers sound the same too?

Maybe you and Chu can open a stereo store and sell used Yamaha amplifiers...

Graeme is right, the only conclusion you can have is that you are advocating not purchasing more expensive components. Or is there something just magical about that old Yamaha circuit board.

What is it?
 

Lee Scoggins

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2001
Messages
6,395
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Real Name
Lee
You're making more bad assumptions.
I am not assuming anything. I am prompting you by way of a hypothetical to divulge your personal philosophy on the matter.

Would it be more logical to assume that amplifiers do sound different and Tom Nousaine's test was a fluke?

Robert,

You need to be more specific. What do you believe?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum statistics

Threads
356,814
Messages
5,123,789
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top