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The Muppets Christmas Carol 20th Anniversary Blu-ray available for preorder on Amazon (1 Viewer)

TravisR

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NY2LA said:
The song was back in the movie when it was first released (a/k/a "transferred, or "finished") on video.
That means that the original version of movie exists on NTSC video. When they have to go back to some type of film element for the Blu-ray, they may just use the theatrical cut. If that's the case, then we have to hope that the folks involved know about it and have the budget to reinstate the deleted footage to the theatrical cut.
That's an explanation of why it has happened on other movies from that era and why it could happen here and NOT an excuse. Just to be clear, I think they should do it right and take the time and money to put the song back in.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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NY2LA said:
Now if Director Brian Henson was involved in the production of this version - enough to do new commentaries by himself and with Muppet performers - and we know he WANTS the movie to be complete...
My guess is that the Brian Henson audio commentary is recycled from the DVD. However, that audio commentary was recorded for the 1.33:1 version with "When Love is Gone" included, which is a strong hint that we'll be getting the home video cut, at least as an option, for this Blu-Ray as well.
 

NY2LA

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Adam Lenhardt said:
My guess is that the Brian Henson audio commentary is recycled from the DVD. However, that audio commentary was recorded for the 1.33:1 version with "When Love is Gone" included, which is a strong hint that we'll be getting the home video cut, at least as an option, for this Blu-Ray as well.
The Blu Ray is being advertised as having a NEW commentary.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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NY2LA said:
The Blu Ray is being advertised as having a NEW commentary.
Isn't that the commentary with the Muppets being voiced in-character? My understanding is that the new Muppets commentary is in addition to the existing Brian Henson commentary, not that both commentaries are new
 

NY2LA

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Adam Lenhardt said:
Isn't that the commentary with the Muppets being voiced in-character? My understanding is that the new Muppets commentary is in addition to the existing Brian Henson commentary, not that both commentaries are new
Since Disney owns the Muppet characters outright we could imagine they don't need Henson Co approval or involvement to have them do new things like the intermission, holiday sing along, or commentary. Just like Disney didn't really need Pixar to make a Toy Story 3 before the sale went through. However the Muppet performers are another story. Free agents. One might think maybe if they did a new commentary for a feature directed by Brian Henson, even if it was just the voice actors, they might involve Henson in it. That's the same level of expectation as assuming that Henson's commentary being used would mean they're going to put it on Henson's complete cut of the film.
Disney could be DBs and NOT do either. They could use the characters for the new enhancements and not involve Henson, they could use his commentary and cut it to match the cut version. They could be REAL DBs and only transfer the cut version on Blu, and the included DVD could be just a copy of the existing or first one so Brian's commentary and the uncut version would still be 1.33... A little net search reveals plenty of evidence that lots of people hated losing the song from the OAR version. The question is, with Disney committed to reviving the brand, would they know enough to keep the original creators involved, or just be lazy DBs and again piss off numerous longtime Muppet fans?
Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here... According to the specs, this new version includes a very good feature that's missing from the last DVD version: "Frogs, Pigs, and Humbug: A Behind the Scenes Look" - which features Brian Henson. With that, this new set would then include ALL the features on BOTH previous DVDs in addition to adding the Holiday Sing Along, Muppet Intermission and Character Commentary. So it seems the ONE and ONLY, the BIG - missing element to make fans happy this time, is to go back and give us a good quality remaster of the ENTIRE film. But they haven't announced that anywhere the specs for this title are found.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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That's a pretty darn good summary of the situation. There's no excuse for not including both cuts, with seamless branching. If Paramount can painstakingly reedit the original film elements of Star Trek: The Next Generation to match frame by frame the video final product, Disney can certainly dig around, find the original film element for "When Love is Gone" and telecine it. The song was cut by Disney very late in the filmmaking process so a finished edit in the OAR should exist somewhere.
 

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A closer look at the Jim Henson Company more than suggests that they are really no longer involved with the Muppets, Bear in the Big Blue House, Sesame Street, AT ALL. It's pretty clear they are not looking back.
Wonder what Brian Henson and Muppet veteran Bill Barretta have been up to lately under the company's "ha!" (henson alternative) banner? Remember that The Muppets originated in Late Night TV before they became family fare, and maybe you won't be so shocked when you find that Brian and Bill voiced a Hollywood couple named Bobby and Samson in a comedy pilot called Tinseltown. http://henson.com/alternative.php They play a pig and a bull, but hey, that's not shocking, Hollywood's full of both...
 

Mike_Richardson

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I will only buy this if it has "When Love is Gone" restored to the picture...I get the feeling it will be (especially if Henson's commentary is there), but until we find out for sure, I'm not preordering.
What worries me is that Disney's currently-broadcast HD master is of the shorter version :(
 

NY2LA

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Adam Lenhardt said:
There's no excuse for not including both cuts, with seamless branching... Disney can certainly dig around, find the original film element for "When Love is Gone" and telecine it. The song was cut by Disney very late in the filmmaking process so a finished edit in the OAR should exist somewhere.
Well since they already HAVE released the film in OAR WITH that song (Laserdisc) it shouldn't be any harder to do it now than it was then. But WILL they?
Disney knew enough to heavily involve the creative team when they bought Pixar, (a VERY smart move) - I just wish they showed more of a similar commitment to the creators of The Muppets. Right now it looks like all they do is hire the Henson Company Creature Shop to create the puppets.
 

Bryan Tuck

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NY2LA said:
Well since they already HAVE released the film in OAR WITH that song (Laserdisc) it shouldn't be any harder to do it now than it was then.
Again, OAR is not the issue. The question is whether or not a cut and finished negative exists for the scene. If not, they'd have to find the raw negatives for the scene and conform them in HD. Totally doable, but something extra to do. But, as others have mentioned, the TNG restoration has proven that just about anything is possible in that realm. And, I may be mistaken, but I guess this must have been what was done with the Aliens special edition (it was originally edited on video).
However, (and this is just speculation) the fact that the scene was taken out so late in the game (along with how jarring the edit in the film is) suggests that it actually might have already been part of the finished negative and then physically extracted (not an unheard-of practice in pre-digital filmmaking). In that case, unless they've just completely lost that scene, there really is no excuse for not including both cuts in HD on the Blu-ray (or both in OAR on the DVD, for that matter).
So either way, yeah, they really should have both.
 

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I can do without the "It's not easy being scrooge special edition" title at top
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NY2LA

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has anybody seen the BACK cover yet?
still wondering if it includes the full length version in OAR.
Henson co had no answer, Disney Homevid PR has not answered...
 

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Figures this is coming out this year. I just finally caved and bought it on DVD last December.
: )
Why does that always happen?
 

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I have a weakness for favorite Christmas themed titles (still hoping for It Happened One Christmas and The Night they Saved Christmas) and bought both versions of this title when they came out.
That taught me not to sell the original until I got the new one and confirmed i wasn't losing any extras - the second DVD is missing a charming fireside chat with Brian Hanson, Rizzo and Gonzo, and I had to go online and buy the same disc back. The new Blu Ray happily has ALL the previous DVD features from Both discs, adding some fun new ones, but they still won't tell us if they have finally straightened out the missing song/original OAR issue.
I have found 98 percent of the time when a new version comes out I can list the old one on Amazon marketplace and someone will buy it at a decent price.
 

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BluRay.com and Amazon.com are both listing 85 minutes, which I believe indicates the short version however I can find nothing officially from Disney that mentions the running time or the song. Their own PR portal has nothing on this release!
Seems to me that if they were going to include the song they would have made a point of saying so. Otherwise, the Blu Ray has every extra that was on the previous 2 DVDs.
 

jim_falconer

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Seems this could be going the way of Pocahontas, where Disney will release the truncated version of the film, and include the song as an 'extra'.
 

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jim_falconer said:
Seems this could be going the way of Pocahontas, where Disney will release the truncated version of the film, and include the song as an 'extra'.
Continuing to piss off fans who've repeatedly bought this movie only to be hosed again. This is not rocket science or brain surgery it's four minutes of footage that does exist. Not such a big effort or expense.
 

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Stephen_J_H said:
I don't NEED this on BD, but it would've been nice, especially if Disney could get it right the first time.
All we can do for now is keep checking retail sites to see if the BACK cover has been added. Hopefully that would give us some kind of answer. Inexplicably Disney's homevid PR site still has nothing on this release.
 

BBbrowd

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NY2LA said:
Continuing to piss off fans who've repeatedly bought this movie only to be hosed again. This is not rocket science or brain surgery it's four minutes of footage that does exist. Not such a big effort or expense.
Well said. It's a real shame if the song has not been reinstated. It's such a beautiful, touching moment. It harks back to the Christmas movies and Specials of the old days.
It's hard to watch the film without it, when you know it should be there.
 

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