The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (2022) - Season 1 (Amazon Prime) (1 Viewer)

[Sam Favate]

Didn't they say in the movies that dwarf women have beards and indistinguishable from men?

I always thought that was a joke.

Another thing that's bothering me: I want to see a tale of the Second Age, but so far, most every plot point - as near as I can tell - if furthering something that we know of The Lord of the Rings. (Galadriel bringing who we know to be the kings of Gondor to the Southlands; the origins of Sauron and the rings; the eventual fall of Numenor; the discovery of mithril; the - possible - building of Helm's Deep; and the mysterious stranger that many think turns out to be a wizard - Gandalf, Saruman or another.) Now, that may be because they were not allowed to adapt The Simarillion; the series is taken from the appendices of the LOTR. Still this is very much a prequel to Jackson's movies and not an adaptation of the works of Tolkien.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Another thing that's bothering me: I want to see a tale of the Second Age, but so far, most every plot point - as near as I can tell - if furthering something that we know of The Lord of the Rings. (Galadriel bringing who we know to be the kings of Gondor to the Southlands; the origins of Sauron and the rings; the eventual fall of Numenor; the discovery of mithril; the - possible - building of Helm's Deep; and the mysterious stranger that many think turns out to be a wizard - Gandalf, Saruman or another.) Now, that may be because they were not allowed to adapt The Simarillion; the series is taken from the appendices of the LOTR. Still this is very much a prequel to Jackson's movies and not an adaptation of the works of Tolkien.

Why didn't they get the rights to adapt from (any parts of) The Silmarillion again?

Seems odd to only get the rights to the appendices of LotR...

_Man_

 

[jayembee]

That said, this week’s episode was pretty slow. One of the problems with these serialized shows vs episodic television is that it takes a long time to tell a relatively simple part of the story. For example, we know that Numenor will launch ships to Middle Earth, but they discussed it for three weeks! So, it’s a lot of drama for a conclusion that, for the audience, is foregone. There’s no real tension if we know what has to happen. The controversy among the people of Numenor could have been handled quickly. It feels like wasted time.

I dunno. If they'd dealt with it more quickly than they did, I would've felt they were rushing it.

 

[Sam Favate]

Why didn't they get the rights to adapt from (any parts of) The Silmarillion again?

Seems odd to only get the rights to the appendices of LotR...

_Man_

The Tolkien family was emphatic: No adaptation of The Simarillion.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

The Tolkien family was emphatic: No adaptation of The Simarillion.

Don't understand why not (even some small parts of it). Seems like letting them adapt only from the appendices would just open a can of worms (that's more likely to require them to take very substantial liberties and create story and themes, subplots, characters and characterizations, etc that might much more substantially diverge from Tolkien's original intents) me thinks... unless the family/estate somehow also retain the right to rather actively limit what the showrunners can do w/ that (apart from preventing provable adaptation from The Silmarillion vs just the appendices)...

_Man_

 

[David Weicker]

I always thought that was a joke.

Another thing that's bothering me: I want to see a tale of the Second Age, but so far, most every plot point - as near as I can tell - if furthering something that we know of The Lord of the Rings. (Galadriel bringing who we know to be the kings of Gondor to the Southlands; the origins of Sauron and the rings; the eventual fall of Numenor; the discovery of mithril; the - possible - building of Helm's Deep; and the mysterious stranger that many think turns out to be a wizard - Gandalf, Saruman or another.) Now, that may be because they were not allowed to adapt The Simarillion; the series is taken from the appendices of the LOTR. Still this is very much a prequel to Jackson's movies and not an adaptation of the works of Tolkien.

Those are the main events of the Second Age

The rise of Sauron, the forging of the rings,, the fall of Numenor, the establishment of Gondor are the defining moments of the Second Age.

The events shown in the Prologue (the battle with Sauron, Isildur cutting off his finger with the Ring) are the final moments of the Second Age.

The Silmarillon tells the story of the First Age. Not having access to that doesn’t hurt this adaptation,

This is telling the story that occurred between the Silmarrilon and The Lord Of the Rings

I’m tired of hearing this bullshit that it isn’t based on the works of Tolkien

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Those are the ones vents of the Second Age

The rise of Sauron, the forging of the rings,, the fall of Numenor, the establishment of Gondor are the defining moments of the Second Age.

The events shown in the Prologue (the battle with Sauron, Isildur cutting off his finger with the Ring) are the final moments of the Second Age.

The Silmarillon tells the story of the First Age. Not having access to that doesn’t hurt this adaptation,

This is telling the story that occurred between the Silmarrilon and The Lord Of the Rings

I’m tired of hearing this bullshit that it isn’t based on the works of Tolkien

Actually, IIRC, The Silmarillion covered most of what you just summarized, including all of the Second Age and the bit of the very beginning of the Third Age that was depicted in the LotR movies' Prologue when Isildur was ambushed and loses the One Ring.

The First Age basically ended w/ the (permanent) defeat of Melkor (or Morgoth), who was a fallen Vala (ie. equiv of a fallen archangel probably largely modeled after Lucifer/Satan, at least in why/how/when he fell anyway) and essentially the master of Sauron, who was a fallen Maia (ie. equiv of a fallen lesser/minor angel... and was arguably also modeled after Lucifer/Satan in a subsequent period when he often/typically hid himself and relied much more on deception instead). Sauron essentially succeeded Melkor as the chief villain/antagonist and gradually (re)rose in/to power in the Second Age culminated in the war depicted in the LotR movies' Prologue.

FWIW, the various "wizards" sent to Middle-Earth, eg. Gandalf, Saruman, were all Maiar (plural for Maia)... as were some similarly powerful, demon-like creatures like the Balrogs, who were basically fallen Maiar not unlike Sauron himself. IIRC, Melkor's army even included multiple Balrogs *plus* Sauron, if you can imagine how horrifying(!!!) that was and how great(!!!) the war that ended the First Age must've been...

And yes, there are definitely some overlap between The Simarillion and very substantial parts of the appendices in the LotR books. Those appendices simply don't go into as much narrative details on the overlapping parts (for obvious reasons) as The Silmarillion of course...

_Man_

 

[Alex...]

 

[NeilO]

Actually, IIRC, The Silmarillion covered most of what you just summarized, including all of the Second Age and the bit of the very beginning of the Third Age that was depicted in the LotR movies' Prologue when Isildur was ambushed and loses the One Ring.

...

And yes, there are definitely some overlap between The Simarillion and very substantial parts of the appendices in the LotR books. Those appendices simply don't go into as much narrative details on the overlapping parts (for obvious reasons) as The Silmarillion of course...

_Man_

Pulling out my copy of The Silmarillion ...

The Akallabeth is one part of the second age and deals with the Downfall of Numenor. It starts on page 259 and goes through 282. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age starts on page 285 and goes to page 304.

The just isn't much there about the second age. It is basically an outline of events that can also be found in the LotR appendices (with even less detail in the appendices).

[There is more information, some of it contradictory to other sources, in the Unfinished Tales and other books. Tolkien kept on changing his mind about of a lot things.]

The creators of this series know that they need to go from point A to point B and hit a few landmarks on the way, but it is pretty much wide open how they get there.

 

[TJPC]

I am enjoying this new series. I was an avid fan of Tolkien when it was “all the rage” in the 1960s, and bought all his books. There are only one or two books that ever defeated me. The Silmarillion was one of them. I found it as dense as a phone book or dictionary, and just about as interesting. I have trouble with names, and I think o would have had to draw up a chart the size of a couple of tables to keep everything straight. Wasn’t it not published during his life time because his publisher thought there would be no interest?

At any rate because of this the stories in LOTHR ROP are fairly new to me.

 

[David Weicker]

I am enjoying this new series. I was an avid fan of Tolkien when it was “all the rage” in the 1960s, and bought all his books. There are only one or two books that ever defeated me. The Silmarillion was one of them. I found it as dense as a phone book or dictionary, and just about as interesting. I have trouble with names, and I think o would have had to draw up a chart the size of a couple of tables to keep everything straight. Wasn’t it not published during his life time because his publisher thought there would be no interest?

At any rate because of this the stories in LOTHR ROP are fairly new to me.

I believe it wasn't published during his lifetime because it wasn't finished. J.R.R. did a lot of rewriting/refining.

His son sifted through years of notes (some contradictory) to fashion several semi-coherent interconnected stories.

In some ways, the creation of The Silmarillion is similar to the creation of TLOTR:ROP. Christopher Tolkien took fragments and overviews to fashion a coherent narrative. It is unknown how much he 'filled' in the gaps. Amazon is working with fragments and overviews (from the Appendices and scattered references within The Hobbit and LOTR, as well as a few allowed backstory references to people/places/events mentioned in The Silmarillion). They are doing their own 'filling in the gaps' to create a coherent story.

 

[NeilO]

If you want to see just how much writing and rewriting and refining he did check out the 12 volumes of The History of Middle-Earth.

The History of Middle-earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are loads of different versions of what appears in The Silmarillion and early versions of LotR. In some of these you can see some notes from Christopher Tolkien about things he wishes he didn't change or add in the published Silmarillion.

 

[jayembee]

I am enjoying this new series. I was an avid fan of Tolkien when it was “all the rage” in the 1960s, and bought all his books. There are only one or two books that ever defeated me. The Silmarillion was one of them. I found it as dense as a phone book or dictionary, and just about as interesting.

That's how I felt about The Lord of the Rings. I've read The Hobbit twice, but LOTR...I gave up halfway through The Two Towers and I've never looked back. Funny thing is that the Ralph Bakshi animated film ended right about where I stopped reading. I wasn't sure I'd ever find out how the story ended, but at least I eventually got there (despite the multiple endings ).

It's a great story, but I found Tolkien's prose about as easy to penetrate as dragonhide.

 

[Jake Lipson]

How are there only three episodes remaining this season now? It feels like we just got started with this show. Considering how expensive the show is, I can understand that it is not a huge episode episode order per season, but still.

Now, that may be because they were not allowed to adapt The Simarillion; the series is taken from the appendices of the LOTR.

I think you are right. My understanding is that Amazon bought the rights to make a TV series based on The Lord of the Rings specifically. So they are limited in what they can use. I like the show, but I'm not really sure why it made sense for Amazon to spend $200 million acquiring rights to just The Lord of the Rings.

Still, I like this better than the legally permissible alternative, which would have been to re-adapt the trilogy itself that Jackson already filmed.

 

[Randy Korstick]

That's how I felt about The Lord of the Rings. I've read The Hobbit twice, but LOTR...I gave up halfway through The Two Towers and I've never looked back. Funny thing is that the Ralph Bakshi animated film ended right about where I stopped reading. I wasn't sure I'd ever find out how the story ended, but at least I eventually got there (despite the multiple endings ).

It's a great story, but I found Tolkien's prose about as easy to penetrate as dragonhide.

I enjoyed all 4 books in High School and then read the trilogy again when the movies were out and I'm not a big book reader at all. After 11 plus hours in extended version I think the story more than earned several endings to wrap everything up. By the way the movie still left out one ending.

 

[Randy Korstick]

How are there only three episodes remaining this season now? It feels like we just got started with this show. Considering how expensive the show is, I can understand that it is not a huge episode episode order per season, but still.



I think you are right. My understanding is that Amazon bought the rights to make a TV series based on The Lord of the Rings specifically. So they are limited in what they can use. I like the show, but I'm not really sure why it made sense for Amazon to spend $200 million acquiring rights to just The Lord of the Rings.

Still, I like this better than the legally permissible alternative, which would have been to re-adapt the trilogy itself that Jackson already filmed.

The plan is for 5 seasons so this is just the beginning.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

RE: the writing/storytelling style, "dense"-ness, etc of The Silmarillion, I actually didn't have any problem at all w/ it... and actually loved it. I actually found it an easier, much quicker read than the LotR books themselves and was thoroughly fascinated. As I recall, it really basically reads a lot like (a not-too-modernized English translation of) the Bible, especially Genesis and the other earlier books of the Old Testament, both in terms of narrative content/themes/drive/rationale and style/"dense"-ness/etc. The similarities really struck me immediately when I first read it... and I wasn't really quite that familiar w/ the (Christian) Bible yet when I originally read this way back then -- think I had only read Genesis once and maybe parts of the few others that make up the Pentateuch (or Torah).

You can basically think of The Silmarillion as the Old Testament of Middle-Earth (or perhaps, more accurately, of the Dunedain and maybe the Elves I guess) while The Hobbit and LotR books themselves might be considered the historical accounts of the New Testament perhaps. And like the Christian Bible, there are other substantial, interesting writings that may or may not be considered canonical to Middle-Earth... yes, some of which may contradict the canon (or what some gatekeepers have to say about the canon)...

As I recall, it probably also reminded me a lot of Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur... which makes sense given other rationale/style/etc Tolkien intended.

Anyhoo...

_Man_

 

[Jake Lipson]

The plan is for 5 seasons so this is just the beginning.

Right. But even so, it feels like they are having pacing issues within this season.

 

[Edwin-S]

I've read quite a few complaints about the series being boring. So far, I have had little desire to watch it.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Finally caught up on the 5 episodes so far, and it's sort of a slog, or I end up dozing through it, and have to rewind. Actor/character engagement on this show just seems lacking me to me to keep my interest nowadays. Galadriel is the only one who seems alive on the show.